Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 16, 2008 12:14:34 GMT -4
If greenhouse gases released by human industry have caused global warming, then why was the warmest year on record 1934, before much of the industrialization of the late 20th century? Not only that, but five of the top ten warmest years on record were all before WWII - 1921, 1931, 1934, 1938, 1939, while only three are within the last ten years - 1998, 1999, and 2006 (the last two are 1953 and 1990).
Is it perhaps possible that the climate of the Earth is an extremely large and complex system and that we haven't yet discovered all the factors that contribute to global temperature changes? Perhaps we could even be overestimating our own effect on it?
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Post by dmundt on Jul 16, 2008 12:40:48 GMT -4
The last eight 5-year periods (2002-2006, 2001-2005, 2000-2004, 1999-2003, 1998-2002, 1997-2001, 1996-2000, 1995-1999), were the warmest 5-year periods in the last 112 years of national records.
Sometimes you can't just look at single years. But I guess you can if you are desperate to make an ideological point.
ALL of the relevant scientific bodies say humans are causing global warming. You continue to pull random facts out, which is not in any way a scientific approach.
I think I will go with what the scientists say.
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Post by Data Cable on Jul 16, 2008 12:56:32 GMT -4
If presented with the evidence, would you be able to interpret it? |
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Post by gillianren on Jul 16, 2008 13:00:19 GMT -4
Guys, you're talking to someone who doesn't believe the evidence is there for evolution.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 16, 2008 13:53:22 GMT -4
The last eight 5-year periods (2002-2006, 2001-2005, 2000-2004, 1999-2003, 1998-2002, 1997-2001, 1996-2000, 1995-1999), were the warmest 5-year periods in the last 112 years of national records. Sometimes you can't just look at single years. But I guess you can if you are desperate to make an ideological point. What about 1934-1939? Why was that five year period so much warmer than the surrounding years? Was it global warming? "Relevent" meaning "those who beileve in global warming"? |
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 16, 2008 13:54:04 GMT -4
If presented with the evidence, would you be able to interpret it? Well we won't know until such evidence appears, will we? |
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Post by dmundt on Jul 16, 2008 14:53:49 GMT -4
Pulling out anomalies and waving them around is not a scientific method. What you're doing, constantly, is saying "here is something that appears not to fit." And then you do nothing to support the claim with anything but conjecture.
"Relevant" as in scientific bodies studying the atmosphere. "ALL" as in "all." "All relevant scientific bodies" as in NO scientific body studying the atmosphere is on your side of the issue.
I have pointed this out and listed these bodies before.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 16, 2008 15:04:33 GMT -4
Pulling out anomalies and waving them around is not a scientific method. What you're doing, constantly, is saying "here is something that appears not to fit." And then you do nothing to support the claim with anything but conjecture. Actually, much of the scientific method is based on coming up with explanations for the previously unexplained anomalies of earlier theories, coming up with new and better theories in the process. "Why did the Michelson-Morley experiment fail to detect the luminiferous aether?" was in many ways the basis of Einstein's work on relativity, for example. Which is an argument from authority. How many people believe something has little or no relationship to whether or not it is true. If it's so wide-spread a belief someone should be able to show me the evidence that led to it, right? |
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Post by dmundt on Jul 17, 2008 10:45:12 GMT -4
So I guess you're the Einstein of global warming, then.
Here's a question for you, then. Do you think global warming is real? Or do you think the Earth is not getting warmer?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 17, 2008 11:06:35 GMT -4
My position is:
I don't believe that the advocates of global warming have proven that human activity is the cause of any global climate change the world may be experiencing and that therefore expensive measures to control carbon emissions are unwarranted, as they will take up resources and place artificial brakes on industry and energy, while they may end up giving us much less real benefit than their expense.
Global warming may indeed be occurring, but I find the casual link to be the most important part in dealing with the problem.
I believe the world's climate is an extremely complex and still little-understood system and that computer models are not accurate enough to base world-changing, impoverishing policies on at this time.
I believe that there are strong financial and prestige motivations for climate scientists to make important new discoveries in their field that attract public attention, and that these motivations may be effecting their scientific detachment.
I believe some of the strongest public advocates of global warming are reprehensible hypocrites, as they ask others to limit their lifestyles while refusing to limit their own, and that they make a very pleasant living off of what is essentially the sale of snake oil and modern indulgences. Yes I'm looking at you, Al Gore.
I believe the motivation of many of the everyday believers of global warming is the desire to save themselves and the world by living a righteous life of self denial while at the same time striking at those they see as sinners - oil companies, big industry, and the rich - and that it is essentially fulfilling the same needs for these people that were once fulfilled by religion.
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Post by dmundt on Jul 17, 2008 11:14:05 GMT -4
So... do you think global warming is happening, or not?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 17, 2008 11:23:08 GMT -4
So... do you think global warming is happening, or not? I think the world's climate changes all the time. |
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Post by dmundt on Jul 17, 2008 13:02:43 GMT -4
I'll try again. Do you think the Earth's atmosphere is currently experiencing a warming trend?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 17, 2008 13:29:20 GMT -4
I'll try again. Do you think the Earth's atmosphere is currently experiencing a warming trend? When it comes to whether a global warming trend is actually occurring, I'm an agnostic. There seems to be evidence both for and against a current warming trend, and I am not completely convinced by either side. |
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Post by dmundt on Jul 17, 2008 16:58:14 GMT -4
What does this graph represent?  From MET, Ministry of Defense, UK |
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