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Post by gillianren on Aug 3, 2008 16:01:27 GMT -4
What happened to the planes?Who knows for sure they even exists. Oh, for heaven's sake. Well, let's see--the people who serviced them at the airport. The air traffic controllers the whole way. The people who watched friends and family members board the airplanes. I'm sorry--if you want to be taken at all seriously, you must acknowledge that the planes existed, simply because there is too much evidence to deny unless you are delusional. Uh huh. Did you notice that it didn't answer the question I asked you? I'm not asking Rumsfeld, who I trust as far as I could throw one of the planes in question. I am asking you. What happened to the people on those planes? We know they existed. What happened to them? Not specific enough. "Evil people"? Please. Not specific enough. I want you to explain, in detail, exactly how they were able to fool thousands of eyewitnesses and thousands of rescue workers after the fact. Thousands of engineers the world over--including countries that aren't exactly our best friends. If you cannot, why should we take you seriously? Why invent Saudi hijackers, then? We haven't invaded Saudi Arabia, and it doesn't look like we're going to any time soon. Wouldn't it make more sense to invent Iraqi hijackers, if the plan was to invade Iraq? And if it wasn't, how does oil play in? You haven't thought this through, it's obvious. Your "solution" raises more questions all the time, has no obvious mechanism, and denies great wallops of physical evidence. You might want to look to that.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 3, 2008 16:09:41 GMT -4
I was going to re-respond to cc, but the rest of you have done a great job and quite frankly it isn't going to make the slightest difference to them. I think I am going to take a page from Mark Roberts' book and simply not bother with No-Planers, they are so far removed from reality that they live in a parrallel Universe to the rest of the world.
I have personally spoken to people who were in office buildings close enough to the Towers that they could feel the heat from the fire. They were there as were hundreds of people saw the plane just in that building alone. I have talked with one the the people at Boston ATC who watched the events unfold, helpoed with the radar tracking of Flight 11 and who spoke to the people at NEADS. I have talked to people who saw both planes from across the river and watched the Towers collapse. These events were witnessed by tens of thousands of people in the biggest city in the world. New Yorkers simply will not put up with this sort of nonsense because if they didn't see it personally, they know someone that did. There is plenty of amature video and photos of the crashes with the people saying it was a plane. Did some mysterious Man in Black run about putting Computer Graphics in all their images too? There was plane wreckage scatter over lower Manhatten, parts that narrowly missed some people, and unfortunately didn't miss other people. Projected Holograms (which only exist in Star Wars anyway) don't spray wreckage across the city! No-Planers dismiss all of this out of hand and weave wild stories about impossible technology being used to fool people. They are the biggest fools.
What cc is really saying is that all of the following people and organisations are either in on the most evil plot ever, or are lying to cover it up.
1,200 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene 40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero 55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York 7,000+ FBI Agents 8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon ACE Bermuda Insurance AEMC Construction AIG Insurance Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue Allianz Global Risks American Airlines American Concrete Institute American Institute of Steel Construction American Red Cross Applied Biosystems Inc. Applied Research Associates Arlington County Emergency Medical Services Arlington County Fire Department Arlington County Sheriff's Department Arlington VA Police Department Armed Forces Institute of Pathology Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee ARUP USA Atlantic Heydt Inc. Bechtel Berlin Fire Department Big Apple Wrecking Blanford & Co. Bode Technology Group Bovis Inc. Building and Construction Trades Council Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept. California Incident Management Team Carter Burgess Engineering Celera Genomics Centers for Disease Control Central City Fire Department Central Intelligence Agency Cleveland Airport control tower Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee Consolidated Edison Company Construction Technologies Laboratory Controlled Demolitions Inc. Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat Counterterrorism and Security Group CTL Engineering D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc. DeSimone Consulting Engineers Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners DiSalvo Ericson Engineering District of Columbia Fire & Rescue DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon D'Onofrio Construction E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews Edwards and Kelcey Engineering Engineering Systems, Inc. Environmental protection Agency Exponent Failure Analysis Associates EYP Mission CriticalFacilities Fairfax County Fire & Rescue Falcon 20 crew in PA Family members who received calls from victims on the planes FBI Evidence Recovery Teams Federal Aviation Administration Federal Bureau of Investigation Federal Emergency Management Agency Federal Insurance Co. FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1 FEMA Disaster Field Office FEMA Emergency Response Team FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3 Fire Department of New York Fort Myer Fire Department Fourteen teams of search dogs from Oregon French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force Friedens Volunteer Fire Department Gateway Demolition Gene Code Forensics Georgia Tech Engineering Dept. Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP GMAC Financing Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers Guy Nordenson Associates HAKS Engineers Hampton-Clarke Inc. HHS National Medical Response Team HLW International Engineering Hooversville Rescue Squad. Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department Hoy Structural Services Hughes Associates, Inc Hugo Neu Schnitzer East hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives Industrial Risk Insurers Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems International Association of Fire Chiefs International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15 J.R. Harris & Company Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc. KCE Structural Engineers Koch Skanska Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates Laboratory Corp. of America Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory Leslie E. Robertson Associates LIRo Engineering Listie Volunteer Fire Company Lockwood Consulting M.G. McLaren Engineering Masonry Society Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc. Metal Management Northeast Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team Montgomery County Fire & Rescue Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers Murray Engineering Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc. National Center for Biotechnology Informatics National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States National Council of Structural Engineers Associations National Disaster Medical System National Emergency Numbering Association National Fire Protection Association National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute National Law Enforcement and Security Institute National Military Command Center National Reconnaissance Office National Response Center National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems National Security Agency National Transportation Safety Board National Wrecking Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center New Jersey State Police New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force New York City Department of Design and Construction New York City Department of Environmental Protection New York City Office of Emergency Management New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner New York City Police Department Aviation Unit New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit New York Daily News New York Flight Control Center New York Newsday New York Port Authority Construction Board New York Port Authority Police New York State Emergency Management Office New York State Police Forensic Services New York Times North American Aerospace Defense Command Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs Numerous Forensic Anthropologists Numerous Forensic Dentists Numerous Forensic Pathologists Numerous Forensic Radiologists NuStats Occupational Safety and Health Administration Office of Emergency Preparedness Office of Strategic Services Orchid Cellmark Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association Pennsylvania State Police Pentagon Defense Protective Service Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team Pentagon Medical Staff Pentagon Renovation Team Phillips & Jordan, Inc. Port of New York and New Jersey Authority Pro-Safety Services Protec Public Entity Risk Institute Purdue University Engineering Dept. Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams Salvation Army Disaster Services several EPA Hazmat Teams several FBI Hazmat Teams several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams Severud Associates Consulting Engineers Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company Silverstein Properties Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire Society of Fire Protection Engineers Somerset Ambulance Association Somerset County Coroner's Office Somerset County Emergency Management Agency Somerset Volunteer Fire Department St. Paul/Travelers Insurance State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE) Structural Engineers Association of New York Superstructures Engineering Swiss Re America Insurance Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes Teng & Associates Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc. TIG Insurance Tokio Marine & Fire Transportation Safety Administration Tully Construction Twin City Fire Insurance Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Underwriters Laboratories Union Wrecking United Airlines United States Air National Guard United States Fire Administration United States Secret Service United Steelworkers of America University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command US Department of Defense US Department of Justice US Department of State Virginia Beach Fire Department Virginia Department of Emergency Management Virginia State Police Vollmer Associates Engineers Washington Post Weeks Marine Weidlinger Associates Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency Whitney Contracting Willis Group Holdings WJE Structural Engineers Worcester Polytechnic Institute World Trade Center security staff XL Insurance Yonkers Contracting York International Zurich Financial Zurich Re Risk Engineering
Conspiracists: are these people liars, dupes, or shills?
Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E. Alan Rosa, P.E., S.E. Allyn Kilsheimer, P.E. Amit Bandyopadhyay, S.E. Amy Zelson Mundorff Anamaria Bonilla, S.E. Andrew McConnell, S.E. Andrew Mueller-Lust, S.E. Andrew Pontecorvo, P.E. Anthony Kirk US&R Structural Specialist Anthony W. Chuliver, S.E. Antoine E. Naaman, Ph.D. Antranig M. Ouzoonian, P.E. Arlan Dobson, FEMA Region 2 DAS August Domel, Ph.D., S.E., P.E. Bernie Denke US&R Structural Specialist Bill Cote Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E. Bob Gray (I.U.O.E.) Bonnie Manley, P.E., S.E. Boris Hayda, P.E., S.E. Brian Lyons Brian McElhatten, S.E. Brian Smith (Col.), Chief Deputy Medical Examiner, Dover AFB Charles Hirsch, M.D. Charles J. Carter, AISC Charles Thornton, P.E. Charlie Vitchers Christopher E. Marrion, P.E. Christopher M. Hewitt, AISC Chuck Guardia, S.E. D. Stanton Korista, P.E., S.E. Dan Doyle (IW 40) Dan Eschenasy, P.E., S.E. Daniel A. Cuoco, P.E Daniele Veneziano, P.E. David Davidowitz, ConEd David Hoy, S.E. David Leach, USACE David M. Parks, ME David Peraza, P.E., S.E. David Ranlet David Schomburg David Sharp, S.E. David T. Biggs, P.E. Dean Koutsoubis, S.E. Dean Tills, P.E. Delbert Boring, P.E. Dennis Clark (IST) Dennis Dirkmaat, Ph.D. Dennis Mileti, Ph.D. Dick Posthauer, S.E. Donald Friedman, P.E. Donald O. Dusenberry, P.E. Ed McGinley, P.E. Ed Plaugher, Chief, Arlington FD Edward A. Flynn, Arlington Police Chief Edward Depaola, S.E. Edward M. DePaola, P.E. Edward Stinnette, Chief, FCFD Fahim Sadek, P.E., S.E. Farid Alfawakhiri Ph.D. FDNY Battalion Chief Frank Vallebuono FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale FDNY Chief Frank Cruthers FDNY Chief Frank Fellini FDNY Chief Joseph Callan FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden FDNY Firefighter Sam Melisi Francis J. Lombardi, P.E. Frank Gayle, Sc.D Gary Keith, V.P. NFPA Gary Steficek, S.E. Gary Suson Gary Tokle, Asst. VP, NFPA George Tamaro, P.E., S.E. Gerald Haynes, P.E. Gerald Wellman US&R Structural Specialist Guy Colonna, P.E., NFPA Guylene Proulx, Ph.D. H.S. Lew, P.E., S.E. Harold E. Nelson, P.E., FSFP.E. Harry Martin, AISC J. David Frost, Ph.D., P.E. Jack Brown Deputy Chief Loudoun County (Va.) Fire Rescue Department Jack Messagno James A. Rossberg, P.E. James Chastain US&R Structural Specialist James H. Fahey, S.E. James Lord, FSFP.E. James Milke, Ph.D., P.E. Jan Szumanski, IUOE Jason Averill, FSFP.E. Jeffrey Hartman, S.E. Jim Abadie Joel Meyerowitz John Gross, Ph.D., P.E. John Hodgens, FDNY (ret.) John J. Zils, P.E., S.E. John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E. John Lekstutis, P.E. John M. Hanson, Ph.D, P.E. John McArdle NYPD/ESU (DTC) John Moran, NYPD/ESU (NTC) John O'Connell John Odermatt (NYC OEM) John Ruddy, P.E., S.E. John Ryan, PAPD John W. Fisher, P.E. Jon Magnusson, P.E., S.E. Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D Joo-Eun Lee P.E., S.E. Joseph C. Gehlen, P.E., S.E. Jozef Van Dyck, P.E. Juan Paulo Morla, S.E. Karl Koch III Kaspar Willam, P.E., S.E. Kenneth Holden Kent Watts Kevin Malley, FDNY (ret.) Kevin Terry, S.E. Kurt Gustafson, P.E., S.E. Larry Keating (IW 40) Lawrence C. Bank, Ph.D., P.E. Lawrence Griffis, P.E. Leo J. Titus, P.E. Leonard M. Joseph, P.E. Leslie E. Robertson, P.E., S.E. Long T. Phan, Ph.D., P.E. Lou Mendes, P.E., S.E. Louis Errichiello, S.E. Manny Velivasakis, P.E. Mark Blair Mark Kucera, USACE Mark Tamaro, P.E Mark Volpe, IW 40 Marty Corcoran Matthew G. Yerkey, P.E., S.E. Merle E. Brander, P.E. Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Michael Burton, P.E. Michael Dallal Michael Hessheimer, S.E. Michael Tylk, P.E., S.E. Mike Banker, FDNY Capt. (SOC) Mike Marscio, P.E. Miroslav Sulc,, P.E., S.E. Mohammed Ettouney Morgan Hurley, FSFP.E. Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E. Nick Carcich Norman Groner, Ph.D. Pablo Lopez, P.E., S.E. Paul A. Bosela, Ph.D., P.E. Paul F. Mlakar, Ph.D., P.E. Paul Sledzik Paul Tertell, P.E. Pete Bakersky Peter Chipchase, S.E. Peter Rinaldi, P.E. Rajani Nair, S.E. Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E Randy Lawson Raul Maestre, P.E., S.E. Raymond F. Messer, P.E. Reidar Bjorhovde, Ph.D., P.E Richard Bukowski P.E., FSFP.E. Richard G. Gewain, P.E., S.E. Richard Gann, Ph.D. Richard Garlock, P.E., S.E. Richard Kahler US&R Structural Specialist Robert C. Sinn, P.E., S.E. Robert F. Duval (NFPA) Robert Frances US&R Structural Specialist Robert J. McNamara, P.E., S.E. Robert Ratay, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. Robert Shaler, M.D. Robert Smilowitz, Ph.D., P.E Robert Solomon, P.E. Robert Wills, AISC Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E. Ronald J. LaMere, P.E. Ronald Rehm, Ph.D. Ronald Spadafora, FDNY D.A.C Ruben M. Zallen, P.E. Russell "Rusty" Dodge Jr, Asst. Chief, Fort Belvoir FD S. Shyam Sunder, P.E., S.E. Saw-Teen See, P.E. Shankar Nair. P.E., S.E. Shawn Kelly, Arlington County Fire Marshal Socrates Ioannides, P.E., S.E. Sonny Scarff Stan Murphy, P.E. Stephen Cauffman Steve Rasweiler, FDNY B.C. (SOC) Stuart Foltz, P.E. Terry Sullivan, Tully Theodore Galambos, P.E. Theodore Krauthammer, Ph.D., P.E. Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E. Thomas Hawkins Jr, Chief, AFD Thomas Schlafly, AISC Todd Ude, P.E., S.E. Tom Scarangello, P.E. Tom Stanton (IST) Tony Beale, P.E. Valentine Junker Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E. Victor Hare, P.E. Vincent Dunn, FDNY (ret.) W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. W. Lee Evey Wallace Miller William Baker, P.E., S.E William Grosshandler, Ph.D., ME William McGuire, P.E. Willie Quinlan, IW Zdenek Bazant, Ph.D., S.E.
9/11 Commission & Staff Thomas H. Kean, Chair Lee H. Hamilton, Vice Chair Richard Ben-Veniste Fred F. Fielding Jamie S. Gorelick Slade Gorton Bob Kerrey John F. Lehman Timothy J. Roemer James R. Thompson
Joanne Accolla Alexis Albion Scott Allan John Azzarello Caroline Barnes Warren Bass Ann Bennett Mark Bittinger Madeleine Blot Antwion Blount Geoff Brown Daniel Byman Dianna Campagna Sam Caspersen Melissa Coffey Lance Cole Marquittia Coleman Marco Cordero Raj De Counsel George Delgrosso Gerald L. Dillingham Thomas Dowling Steven Dunne Thomas Eldridge John Farmer Alvin Felzenberg Gordon England Lorry Fenner Susan Ginsburg T. Graham Giusti Nicole Grandrimo Doug Greenburg Barbara Grewe Elinore Hartz Len Hawley Christine Healey Karen Heitkotter Walt Hempel Michael Hurley Dana Hyde Michael Jacobson Bonnie Jenkins Reginald Johnson William Johnstone Stephanie Kaplan Miles Kara Janice Kephart-Roberts Hyon Kim Christopher Kojm Katarzyna (Kasia) Kozaczuk Gordon Lederman Daniel Leopold Sarah Linden Douglas MacEachin Daniel Marcus Ernest May James Miller Kelly Moore Charles Pereira John Raidt John Roth Peter Rundlet Lloyd Salvetti Kevin Scheid Kevin Shaeffer Tracy Shycoff Dietrich Snell Jonathan Stull Lisa Sullivan John Tamm Cate Taylor Yoel Tobin Emily Walker Garth Wermter Serena Wille Philip Zelikow, Executive Director
The Congressional Joint Inquiry on 9/11 Senate Members Bob Graham, D - Florida, Chairman Richard C. Shelby, R - Alabama, Vice Chairman Carl Levin Jon Kyl John D. Rockefeller James M. Inhofe Dianne Feinstein Orrin Hatch Ron Wyden Pat Roberts Richard J. Durbin, Mike DeWine EvanBayh Fred Thompson John Edwards Richard Lugar Barbara Mikulski Al Cumming, Staff Director William Duhnke, Minority Staff Director
House Members Porter J. Goss, Chairman Nancy Pelosi Doug Bereuter Sanford D. Bishop Michael N. Castle, Jane Harman Sherwood L. Boehlert Gary A. Condit Jim Gibbons Tim Roemer Ray LaHood Silvestre Reyes Randy Cunningham Leonard L. Boswell Peter Hoekstra, Collin C. Peterson Richard Burr Bud Cramer Saxby Chambliss Terry Everett Timothy R. Sample, Staff Director Michael W. Sheehy, Democratic Counsel
Staff Eleanor Hill Rick Cinquegrana David Barton Ann Bennett Daniel Byman Michael Davidson George Ellard Rahul Gupta Kay Holt John Ivicic Michael Jacobson Everette Jordan Miles Kara John Keefe Thomas Kelley Dana Lesemann Patti Litman Arthur Menna Lewis Moon Patricia Ravalgi Alonzo Robertson Robert Rosenwald Michael Smith Catherine Williams
the Zacharias Moussaoui prosecution team the prosecution team for KSM and co
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