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Post by Jairo on Oct 21, 2008 22:26:17 GMT -4
A HB said that the atom bombs are a hoax because the clouds remain after the shock wave passes by: br.youtube.com/watch?v=PoeZN2hQoXUI suppose the clouds don't follow the shock wave exactly because it's a schock wave, and not a wind gust. But I'd like to know what informations you have about this. Have anyone ever heard of that before?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Oct 21, 2008 23:06:06 GMT -4
I'm thinking that the clouds in that video were much farther away from the blast than it appears, and that is why they were not affected. It's difficult to judge how far the clouds were from the explosion in a 2D video.
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Post by gillianren on Oct 22, 2008 1:44:24 GMT -4
You know, with a lot of these stupid conspiracies, I can see where people at least got the idea. But really? Atom bombs are a hoax? Really? I am taken aback.
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Post by Count Zero on Oct 22, 2008 2:41:49 GMT -4
A few points to consider: 1.) This is a film of test Baker of Operation Crossroads on July 25th, 1946. This was an "open" test that was covered by the world press using print, photography, film and live radio. According to William L. Laurence, of the New York Times, it was the most photographed event in history, up to that time. B.) Test Baker was a subsurface shot, with the ~20 kiloton bomb suspended 90 feet underwater. As such, the blast did not couple directly to the air. The shockwave coupled from the water to the air; however this effect was overtaken by the water itself. The detonation sent several million tons of water upwards at over Mach 4. The water slowed down and peaked ~1 mile up, ~1 second after the burst. The atmospheric shockwaves caused the spherical cloud that dissipates after a couple of seconds. III.) Clouds occur when specific conditions of temperature, pressure and humidity are met. A shockwave can change these conditions and either cause clouds to condense or dissipate. This HB's arguement fails because you can clearly see clouds in the forground being dissipated by the blast. I should also point out that an atmospheric nuclear burst has two distinct and opposing blast characteristics. The initial shockwave from the blast travels outward. However, once it passes there is a strong, sustained wind toward the point of detonation. Hot air rises. A nuclear fireball rises very fast, pulling a vacuum behind it. This, in turn, pulls in the surrounding air. Expecting a blast to blow away all of the clouds around it is a mistaken assumption.
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Post by gwiz on Oct 22, 2008 5:48:56 GMT -4
A HB said that the atom bombs are a hoax because the clouds remain after the shock wave passes by There are two "surfaces" moving outward, the shock and the boundary between the original air and the material - mainly water/water vapour - displaced by the explosion. Before the shock there is no wind since the shock moves at supersonic speed. After the shock there is an outward wind and higher pressure. After the boundary there is a much thicker cloud due to the high moisture content. This is all clearly visible in the clip, particularly to the right after the camera angle changes, where the clouds thin/blow away as the shock passes then get engulfed by the thick cloud as the boundary passes. It's harder to see what is happening to the foreground clouds as the front parts of the clouds towards the camera obscure what is happening to the back parts.
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Post by Kiwi on Oct 22, 2008 6:13:19 GMT -4
I don't believe that atom bombs are a hoax after seeing the effects of the Starfish Prime explosion above Johnson Island on 9 July 1962. I was 13 and it scared the hell out of me to see that when it was so far away from New Zealand. Check the distance on any globe -- it's about the same as people in Boston, USA seeing something above Rome, Italy. Manawatu Evening Standard, 10 July 1962, page 7 All New Zealand sees US H-bomb glow Blast 1400 miles up, says DSIR The glow from the exploding H-bomb fired by the Americans high over the Pacific last night was seen throughout New Zealand. Reports from Honolulu say the altitude of the explosion was 200 miles, but scientists at the DSIR auroral station at Lauder, in Central Otago, put the height at 1400 miles. A Tokomaru resident said today that there was a bright red glow in the north from 9pm to 9:15pm last night. The glow trailed across the sky southwards. Directly above him, there was a clear gap in the glow, from which rays were fanning. After a quarter of an hour the glow faded and disappeared. The leading New Zealand nuclear scientist, Sir Ernest Marsden, said in Wellington that it was quite possible the glow from the explosion could be seen in this country, a Press Association message states. No serious disruption of internal radio communications was felt, though electrical railway signalling devices in the Wairarapa and Manawatu were disrupted for a period shortly after 9 o'clock. Press Association messages from various centres report as follows:- DUNEDIN.- The brilliant artificial aurora sent instruments right off the scale at the DSIR auroral station in Lauder, Central Otago. Scientists at the station listened to the test’s count-down. The rocket lifted off at 8:48pm New Zealand time, and immediately after the explosion - at 9-1/2 seconds after 9pm - needles and dials went crazy. The strength of the explosion far exceeded their expectations. Dr M Gadsden, a scientist at the station and a world authority on the aurora, said he had been expecting a "slight twitch" on the delicate recording devices. Scientists at the auroral station said they thought the big nuclear explosion took place at a height of more than 1400 miles, seven times higher than announced. Dr Gadsden said this was only a preliminary calculation on the data available. He said the time from take-off to explosion would tie in with the flight of the rocket to an altitude of about 1400 to 1500 miles and would account for the South Island sightings of the aurora. The superintendent of the Seismological Observatory (Dr F F Evison) said in Wellington that he thought it unlikely that New Zealand would be affected by earthquakes resulting from the explosion. Significant Change Working with tape-recordings, Dominion Physical Laboratory scientists at Lower Hutt learned that the explosion had caused a significant disturbance to the magnetic field of the earth. The phenomenon was, late last night, believed to be as big as any previously recorded. Similar recordings were being made by scientists in Central Otago. The data gained have yet to be analysed. WELLINGTON.- The first report of the glow in the Wellington area was made by a Porirua resident, and this was followed shortly after by that of a Naenae sighting. Locomotive drivers in areas north of Wellington and National Airways Corporation pilots in the vicinity of Cook Strait and Nelson apparently saw the glow about 9pm also. The director of the geophysical division of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research (Mr E I Robertson) said the glow could have been caused by radioactive particles from the nuclear blast travelling along the earth's magnetic field. A civil aviation radio technician at Wellington Airport, who had been receiving transmissions of the countdown before the nuclear detonation, said that as soon as the countdown was completed communication with the American-manned station failed...
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Post by Kiwi on Oct 22, 2008 6:29:51 GMT -4
A HB said that the atom bombs are a hoax... Yet another HB shows his incredible knowledge, wisdom and powers of observation. Perhaps he'd like to stand next to one when it's set off, should the opportunity ever arise. He certainly wouldn't feel any pain from the explosion, so perhaps it could be just a big hoax. He might even be allowed to play Dr Strangelove and sit on the bomb...
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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Oct 22, 2008 11:01:23 GMT -4
The Japanese people were pretty sick of the war, but the government didn't want to quit, so they cooperated to perpetrate the supposed "atomic blasts" on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The people of Hiroshima simply picked up and moved their bamboo and rice paper buildings, but Nagasaki was more industrial. Truman had the NSA PhotoShop the city out of the pictures. Oppenheimer wanted out of the hoax, so they started calling him a commie.
Of course in those days a Wacom tablet was the size of a basketball court, and the stylus had to be driven around by a crane. I'm sure your average YouTube Hoax expert can find footage of one in action.
The makeup artists who painted up the "blast victims" later went on to make Godzilla movies, where they planted whistleblower clues to the "nuke hoax."
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Post by Count Zero on Oct 22, 2008 12:11:11 GMT -4
Well, I'm convinced!
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Post by dragonblaster on Oct 23, 2008 5:36:16 GMT -4
These people are sick. You only have to look at Japanese film and literature to see a vein of atomic neurosis endemic in the nation. It's almost like the Japanese people are still collectively traumatised by those two bombs. two generations later.
Perhaps any surviving crew or relatives of the crew of the Lucky Dragon would like to chime in at this point, laughing and joking about how they were handsomely paid to say they had radiation sickness just to perpetuate the myth?
Perhaps the American and British troops who were marched into a-bomb craters and are now suffering the delayed effects would also care to 'fess up to their lies now?
Louis Slotin's family - care to own up now that the great man didn't die in agony, he is really alive and living in luxury under an assumed name in the Seychelles?
The mischief-making of these HBs borders on the criminal.
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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Oct 24, 2008 0:47:55 GMT -4
I think this is another example of how distant these young idiots are from danger. I broke out in a rash of hives around the time that "The Day After" was broadcast.
What's next, a theory that IED's are a hoax?
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Post by dragonblaster on Oct 24, 2008 8:21:06 GMT -4
"The Day After" is good, but IMHO "Threads" is better. Much scarier and tells you the aftermath goes on for decades. I have both on DVD, and they make me shiver when I think of how close the Cuban missile crisis got to WWIII - new facts come out every day under freedom of information, and it's almost astonishing that nobody pushed the button.
I honestly believe that whatever the revisionists like to throw retrospectively at Kennedy, we all owe him for the Cuban crisis: the Joint Chiefs of Staff were howling for blood, but Kennedy held them in check just long enough to let it blow over. If Nixon, Reagan or Bush had been in the White House... who knows?
Haven't had any nuclear nightmares for a long time now, but they were frequent visitors in my mid-teens to mid-twenties.
Hoax? HA! I wish.
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Post by brotherofthemoon on Oct 24, 2008 9:50:08 GMT -4
Ha! Finally, an excuse for me to bring out my list of reasons why the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were FAKE!
(Sarcasm Alert!)
1. The bombs yielded between 15 and 20 kilotons, but didn't leave a gigantic charred blast crater. 2. Supposedly, the bomb dropped on Hiroshima killed 70,000 people outright. Japan instituted a "Duck and Cover" plan in 1929, but for some reason didn't use it in Hiroshima. 3. It's impossible to pack 15,000 tons of explosives into a bomb ten feet long and three feet around. 4. A 500 pound bomb can destroy everything within 20 feet. Therefore, the Little Boy bomb should have flattened everything in a 114 mile radius. 5. The primary cause of death from a nuclear explosions are flashing skeletonizer rays that vaporize people instantly. This didn't happen in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. 6. Most of Hiroshima was flattened, but a building near the center of the explosion survived except for having all it's glass shattered. 7. The Russians built an atomic bomb in about the same amount as time as the Americans, which is completely ridiculous considering their vast technological superiority. 8. The burn shadows caused by the heat of the fireball are almost always non-parallel. 9. The intense heat of the explosion would have melted film for miles around, and yet people were taking photos of the destruction within hours. 10. The radiation caused by the bombs would have created a permanent radioactive bubble around Japan which no one could enter unless shielded by six feet of lead. 11. The bombs themselves were so unstable they would have flown back towards their B-29 and exploded. 12. One of the first Atomic Bomber Prototype Test Planes crashed during testing. The ABPTP was too dangerous too fly, and yet they built more than 4,000 production aircraft! 13. If atomic bombs could be dropped on cities 60 years ago, we would still be dropping them today. 14. Computing power was insufficient to guide the bombs to their targets. 15. In a 2003 Gallup poll, 98% of Americans doubted that nuclear weapons even existed. 16. The photos of the destruction are remarkably similar to the 1984 BBC television film Threads, and unsurprisingly, most of the photographs of the bombing's aftermath didn't start appearing until the mid 80s. 18. No one could see any stars in the sky the night after the bombing. 19. Some of the shadows created by the heat of the fireball aren't completely black. 20. The movement of crew members aboard the Atomic Bomb Dropping Plane would have changed it's center off gravity, knocking it off-balance. 21. Many survivors never heard the sound of the explosion, which is completely absurd. 22. If you speed the footage of the blast four times, it's obviously just a small bomb filmed in extreme close-up. 23. All of the photos taken after the bombing are perfectly framed and exposed. 24. If the bombings were real, Truman would have had General Eisenhower and Robert Oppenheimer killed in a fire for opposing them. 25. A feather dropped from a plane at 30,000 feet would take longer to hit the ground than an atomic bomb. 26. The ABDP had two bomb bays in the center of it's fuselage. There's no way the crew could have accessed the rear compartment with them in the way. 27. The state of technology was so bad in 1945 rifles still had bayonets on them. Are we supposed to believe they could make an atomic bomb?
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Post by Count Zero on Oct 24, 2008 10:01:19 GMT -4
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Oct 24, 2008 11:00:17 GMT -4
I honestly believe that whatever the revisionists like to throw retrospectively at Kennedy, we all owe him for the Cuban crisis: the Joint Chiefs of Staff were howling for blood, but Kennedy held them in check just long enough to let it blow over. If Nixon, Reagan or Bush had been in the White House... who knows? The Soviets probably wouldn't have even tried to put missiles in Cuba in the first place if Nixon or Reagan were in the White House. Part of what they were doing was testing the resolve of a young, untried president. That was Kennedy's finest hour, though.
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