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Post by George Tirebiter on Mar 3, 2009 23:45:31 GMT -4
If NASA was going to "erase" O'Leary, it seems far more likely to me to be political fallout from his criticism of the astronaut office in his book "The Making of an Ex-Astronaut" (which I read many years ago; I only remember that he was very bitter about his troubles qualifying on the T-38) than from anything he may have said about a potential Apollo hoax.
But, to an HB, it couldn't possibly be something so banal.
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Post by Jason Thompson on Mar 4, 2009 7:49:10 GMT -4
Jarrah White's latest effort seems to be concerned at least in part with making Jay Windley out to be a liar. A disturbingly large part of Jarrah White's efforts are directed at making Jay out to be a liar. He even posted an extensive tirade on the Yahoo group before being kicked off for being offensive. In said tirade he focused exclusively on Jay and ignored every other individual that tried to participate in that discussion. Jarrah has an unhealthy obsession with Jay, IMO.
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Post by JayUtah on Mar 4, 2009 10:50:48 GMT -4
Jarrah's entire approach forever has been to attack hoax opponents. I seem to be his favorite target. Yes, it is an obsession; and yes, it is unhealthy. But no one has ever accused him of being sane.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Mar 4, 2009 11:06:57 GMT -4
Jay, have you ever engaged Jarrah directly or does he only know you by reputation? I'm trying to understand if this obsession began, perhaps, because you embarrassed him in a debate at some time in the past.
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Post by echnaton on Mar 4, 2009 11:09:07 GMT -4
The author of the article, Kristine Moe, apparently had her career with the paper end the next year.
Many high-profile journalistic careers came to screeching halts in America when the powerful got irked:
www.ahealedplanet.net/lies.htm#arnett
much less some cub reporter for the San Diego newspaper. Does anybody not think that Schirra had some pull there?Do you have any evidence to support this accusation? Was Schirra really powerful enough to get a reporter fired over a trivial article? He certainly was a celebrity, but did he have any sway with the editors and publishers of the newspaper. People in the news business are used to dealing with the influential and occasionally irking them. But they also know their business and know that irking the powerful sells papers. Besides, journalism is by necessity a mobile career. Reporters, particularly beginning reporters, change jobs many times throughout there careers. How long did it take to get her fired?
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Post by wadefrazier on Mar 4, 2009 12:55:42 GMT -4
Brian considers this entire matter making a mountain out of a molehill. Schirra definitely tried demoting Brian, which is made clear in the public record, which I find curious that nobody here has yet to respond to. The MUFON and “Brian was not an astronaut” accusation is also easily followed up on. Do I have to do that one, too? On Kristine Moe’s departure from the San Diego paper, it looks like I am going to have to do the legwork there, too. It is well known that when such a breach is made, the real reason for the firing is never made public. “Irking the powerful sells papers?” That is the fantasy version of how the media works. www.ahealedplanet.net/lies.htm#lootThe link I had to other instances, far higher profile than the San Diego paper, makes that clear. Arnett’s CNN career ended over the 1998 Tailwind flap, but it did not officially come until contract renewal time: www.ahealedplanet.net/lies.htm#arnettArnett scrambled and got another position, but then that ended when he gave an interview, while the USA was invading Iraq in 2003, where he failed to play cheerleader for the invasion. He was then reduced to working for a tabloid. That is the real world of what happens when the powerful are irked. Brian was definitely blackballed from NASA, but it had nothing to do with his “The Making of an ex-Astronaut,” which was published in 1970, when he was on the Mariner 10 science team at Caltech. NASA was publishing his papers until 1979. It was after his radicalization and leaving the fold in 1987 that they began blackballing him (right around the same time that Schirra was arguing that Brian be demoted to sub-astronaut status). If anybody can help me contact the right person at NASA to get the ball rolling to having Brian’s bio on NASA’s site, I am all ears.
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Mar 4, 2009 14:58:34 GMT -4
Well, probably Mr. O'Leary himself, as he would need a sign a release form, allowing them to put the information up.
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Post by laurel on Mar 4, 2009 15:01:35 GMT -4
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Post by gillianren on Mar 4, 2009 15:06:39 GMT -4
“Irking the powerful sells papers?” That is the fantasy version of how the media works. Historically speaking, it's a pretty accurate view of how the media works. Or haven't you heard of Edward R. Murrow or Thomas Nast?
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Post by echnaton on Mar 4, 2009 15:27:37 GMT -4
On Kristine Moe’s departure from the San Diego paper, it looks like I am going to have to do the legwork there, too. I'll take that as a retraction of the assertion. Schirra definitely tried demoting Brian, which is made clear in the public record, which I find curious that nobody here has yet to respond to. This is not very interesting to me and is a matter of definition. O'Leary is undoubtedly a fine scientist and would have made a great addition to NASA and its abilities to perform science in space. The fighter pilot astronauts perhaps had a different view on who was an astronaut than NASA administrators. They seemed to think it wasn't a job title but a privilege earned by the accomplishment of going into space. So what? But I still don't see any evidence that it goes further than some name calling.
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Post by JayUtah on Mar 5, 2009 15:27:36 GMT -4
Jay, have you ever engaged Jarrah directly or does he only know you by reputation? I'm trying to understand if this obsession began, perhaps, because you embarrassed him in a debate at some time in the past. Yes, I attempted to engage Jarrah directly. The exchange lasted all of 24 hours on Yahoo before Jarrah was sent packing on account of his foul mouth and belligerent personality. And I gather at the time he already knew me by reputation from the National Geographic program. He charged right in with all guns blazing, so I'm reasonably sure his obsession preceded any actual contact with me.
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Post by JayUtah on Mar 5, 2009 15:36:06 GMT -4
Schirra definitely tried demoting Brian, which is made clear in the public record, which I find curious that nobody here has yet to respond to. If you say Schirra tried to demote O'Leary, then I trust you to have those facts. And I'm naturally at a loss to determine why that would have occurred. I doubt I could get any trustworthy information on Schirra's motives at the time. I recall Jack Schmitt had problems fitting in with "fighter jock" culture that we understand prevailed among the senior astronauts and likely permeated all the Crew Operations Directorate. So I'm prepared to accept any of several possible variations on the theme that O'Learly too just didn't appeal to those in charge.
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Post by tedward on Mar 6, 2009 6:11:37 GMT -4
Looks like the obsession over at youtube has just got very personal. Seems to have kicked off with this subject, now bets are being mentioned.
Jack Scmitt obviously gets a few mentions in Gene Cernans book and a few other books mention the attitudes, for want of a better word, amongst Air force/Navy and scientists from the Apollo times through to the Shuttle. Just finished Riding Rockets where the latter is brought up. I must add that I have not read every account but slowly getting through them.
Also rivalry between airforce and navy get a mention in a few books though I am not sure what to make of that and was it just banter?
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Post by Ginnie on Mar 6, 2009 8:57:49 GMT -4
Jarrah's latest video questions - err, calls Jay a liar and says that Brian 0Leary has never had any contact with Jay : www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmTLzTJ4TuUAll the HB are just revelling in this stuff.
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Post by JayUtah on Mar 6, 2009 15:41:09 GMT -4
They can stay in their fantasy world forever, for all I care. I know the truth and so does Dr. O'Leary.
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