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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Apr 30, 2009 11:38:54 GMT -4
This irks me at a deep level. I know people who refuse to take vaccines, or vaccinate their children. Fact is, wishful thinking has yet to prevent spread of disease but inoculations have eliminated some previously disastrous diseases.
The chance of children infecting one another is 100%. With 3 kids in 2 different schools attending 4 different after-school activities, I get exposed to every cold virus in 2 counties. I don't like getting a cold, but I know that the school district's mandatory vaccination requirement keeps the pool of germs limited mostly to colds and flu. My kids will never know the joy of mumps, measles or chicken pox.
As for the Swine Flu '76 vaccine, that's like saying "the Titanic sunk, avoid all boats." That specific vaccine was flawed, President Ford made some rash decisions based on the information at hand, and the science was crude compared to today's ability to analyze and sequence viral DNA. It's been 33 years since then.
Try reading Science News instead of Infowars for 6 months. You'll be equally freaked out, but by very different aspects of the threats in the world.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Apr 30, 2009 11:49:46 GMT -4
This whole swine flu scare is a mass hysteria. I am in no way concerned that I or anyone I know may be killed by the swine flu. I am in no way concerned that the government will use it as an excuse to lock away undesireables or to let FEMA control the country. I do not fear vaccines (I was vaccinated against this year's flu strain in October, actually).
I am a bit concerned that so many people seem so ready to panic about so little.
People are dying in Mexico from this flu because they have terrible health care, nutrition, and sanitation in Mexico, not because this is a particularly lethal bug.
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Post by PeterB on Apr 30, 2009 11:55:50 GMT -4
Peter B, you might want to do some research on vaccine dangers before getting one. There isn't a vaccine for this flu right now, so what you'll be taking won't be effective, yet it may have damaging effects. The vaccine I'll be getting is nothing to do with the Swine Flu outbreak. It's the annual flu shot made available to staff for the last five or so years. I understand it's developed over the southern summer on the basis of what scientists think will be the main strain of flu in the following winter. Usually they get it right, but obviously sometimes they get it wrong. I've only had one flu vaccine previously, because in the earlier years it was offered I was too crook to be safely vaccinated. Fortunately, although I often get colds (and I have one at the moment, thanks to my son), I've never had the flu. And your source for these reports is what? I see others have already discussed this.
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Post by Dead Hoosiers on Apr 30, 2009 12:06:39 GMT -4
I am a bit concerned that so many people seem so ready to panic about so little. I'm in agreement with that statement. So why all the panic over this flu bug? Schools are shutting down. VP Biden says stay off trains. There is only 1 confirmed death in the U.S. Our regular flu season kills thousands every year with no Level 5 alert from the WHO.
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Post by archer17 on Apr 30, 2009 12:31:32 GMT -4
WHO declared a Level 5 alert against the weaponized "swine" flu. I hope to God it's not the real thing, but we're in danger of martial law, forced vaccinations and quarantine in FEMA camps. I'm getting my information from infowars.com (Alex Jones). If you love your life, do NOT take any vaccine. This is a friendly alert. Please check out this information before killing the messenger. There's good information in this thread regarding the current swine flu situation and it doesn't come from Alex Jones or Infowars. Dead Hoosiers, file this predictable Infowars fear-mongering away somewhere and look at it sometime down the road after this swine flu thing runs it's course and then ask yourself, "why did I even find it credible in the first place?" You don't even need to wait, just look back on some of the prior malarkey spewed by Alex Jones and/or that site and compare it to actual reality. Speaking of those 'FEMA camps,' they have been used so often by the paranoiac peddlers of a shadowy nefarious PTB/NWO cabal that one would expect them to be practically overflowing by this point, don'tcha think? What's your excuse for not being in one?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Apr 30, 2009 12:52:58 GMT -4
I'm in agreement with that statement. So why all the panic over this flu bug? Slow news week? A useful crisis for the Obama camp to use to build momentum on their push for nationalized health care? Anti-Americanism (for the European over-reaction)? Exploitive news networks that get their ratings from frightening people? As you can see, "government conspiracy to force-vaccinate us all" is nowhere near the top of my list of possible reasons for the panic. By the way, shouldn't we all have died of SARS by now?
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Post by echnaton on Apr 30, 2009 13:02:27 GMT -4
I am a bit concerned that so many people seem so ready to panic about so little. I'm in agreement with that statement. So why all the panic over this flu bug? Schools are shutting down. VP Biden says stay off trains. There is only 1 confirmed death in the U.S. Our regular flu season kills thousands every year with no Level 5 alert from the WHO. I don't see any panic around here. But there is some lack of information that makes people properly concerned. As helpful and accurate information is developed and deciminated, behaviors will reflect the valid information. Some people will refuse to send there children to school when there is a threat of contagion. That is rational not panic. Schools must react to that for a variety of reasons. The actual danger form the flu is currently unknown. But because education is compulsory, the school has an obligation to the students not to compel them to come when a reasonable prospect of danger exists. As is the case today. A second reason to close schools, is money. The schools in Texas are compensated by the state based on daily attendance. A 10% hold out by parents will cause a 10% reduction in state funds for those days. Costs remain the same. A closure until parents will send there kids back will allow the school district to maximize funding. Something that is always important to administrators. So while school closings may be considered over reacting on the side of caution, the action could hardly be termed panic in that it is based on a reasonably foreseeable consequences of this little understood variation of swine flu. If schools and other public officials were ignoring the situation would you feel any better? Or think that they were not going to put us in camps? Also DH, since you are criticizing the Level 5 alert, could you tell us why it is not justified? Just making a comparison to the normal flu season is lacking much in the way of authoritativeness.
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Post by Dead Hoosiers on Apr 30, 2009 13:23:58 GMT -4
Also DH, since you are criticizing the Level 5 alert, could you tell us why it is not justified? Just making a comparison to the normal flu season is lacking much in the way of authoritativeness. Low death rate. World panic is premature.
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Post by gillianren on Apr 30, 2009 13:28:44 GMT -4
Actually, I'm all about the mandatory vaccines. We as a species wiped out smallpox. We'd be wiping out polio were it not for anti-vaccinations crazies spreading ridiculous fears.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 30, 2009 13:45:29 GMT -4
Also DH, since you are criticizing the Level 5 alert, could you tell us why it is not justified? Just making a comparison to the normal flu season is lacking much in the way of authoritativeness. Low death rate. World panic is premature. Except that the death rate isn't low in Mexico, and it is killing otherwise healthy adults, that is what started rasing the red flags. The normal deaths duting flu season are the sick, very young, or elderly. This flu has been killing outside the norm, and when they had a 5-10% kill rate, that was extremely worrying. I'd also point out that in your intial post you called this Weaponised. Now you are saying it has a low kill rate so why are people panicking. Did you suffer whiplash from going between those positions? If this was really weaponised, we'd be looking at a 95-98% kill rate. There'd be over a thousands deaths in Mexico by now rather than around 160.
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Post by Dead Hoosiers on Apr 30, 2009 13:58:46 GMT -4
By "weaponized" I mean created in a laboratory, particularly a military laboratory. It needn't be particularly deadly in order for the government to institute extreme precautionary measures that violate our freedoms. There are doctors coming forward to say that there's something hinky about this virus. As for deaths in Mexico, it appears the number of dead have been exaggerated. This next week will give us a better picture of what's going on. I understand Napolitano has predicted that there will be another, deadly, wave of flu in July.
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Post by echnaton on Apr 30, 2009 14:34:54 GMT -4
Also DH, since you are criticizing the Level 5 alert, could you tell us why it is not justified? Just making a comparison to the normal flu season is lacking much in the way of authoritativeness. Low death rate. World panic is premature. Why do you equate a level 5 alert with world panic? What evidence do you have of world panic, or even localized panic in the US. How does the spread of the disease not meet the pre existing criteria for a level 5 alert? By "weaponized" I mean created in a laboratory, particularly a military laboratory. What evidence do you have of this? New flu variants appear regularly. Occasionally they are radically different. How does this flu differ form naturally occurring flu bugs that prove it to be manufactured in a military lab? Panic is marked by irrational fears or beliefs. The only panic I see sounding this is your unfounded accusations?
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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 30, 2009 14:37:29 GMT -4
By "weaponized" I mean created in a laboratory, particularly a military laboratory. The good ole redefine a word trick, so when called on ot you can deny what you really meant. Textbook CT101, well done. Because all government want to violate your freedoms and lock you in FEMA deathcamps regardless of who they are. 3 months ago it was Bush who was evil and after your civil liberties, noe it is Obama. Sure must be such fun living in a constant state of paranoia. I suggest you start paying more attention to media like the BBC and less to infowars. No, the cases weren't confirmed as N1H1, and so while over 160 were dead, only 7 were counted. Over the past 24 hours more results have started to come in, the confirmed deaths is up to 129. Time will always help to figure out what is going to happen, it sort of works like that. The virus could just as easily mutate and burn out as it could mutate and start killing people in western countries. I have no idea who Napolitano is and nor do I really care, but if his strike rate is anywhere near those of the preductions Rusty posts, I won't be holding my breath. Just as an aside, the US and Mexico Flu season is ending, and a summer outbreak is unlikely.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Apr 30, 2009 15:25:22 GMT -4
"Napolitano" is Janet Napolitano, the Secretary of Homeland Security - you know, the nice woman who released a report a couple of weeks ago saying you might be a right-wing terrorist if you are anti-abortion or a veteran.
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Post by echnaton on Apr 30, 2009 15:26:00 GMT -4
I understand Napolitano has predicted that there will be another, deadly, wave of flu in July. The flu season is winding down and this is likely to be over within a month. Flus traditionally do not do well in hot climates with long periods of daylight. Also schools will be out, they are prime place of transmission, although so far that has not been a major factor. The trouble would be if it returns in in the fall for the following season and is more virulent. That is when the vaccine would be available and of the most help. I'd certainly take it and have my children take it as well.
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