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Post by echnaton on Feb 4, 2010 12:39:43 GMT -4
The reason for the differences in the use of "liar" is the inability of discerning a persons true state of mind. How do you know the whether a person who has been presented with conclusive contradicting evidence is knowingly ignoring it, incapable of understanding it, or too blinded to consider it? It is fair to call people who claim that vaccines cause autism liars. Because there is no evidence to support their claim while at the same time they ignore a significant body of evidence that opposes them. Their actual state of mind is a distraction and need not be debated. It's a fair point that it's difficult to know someone else's true state of mind, especially on the internet. That leads me to believe that it's better to avoid calling anyone a liar, rather than mis-apply that label to the ignorant or unintelligent. The definition I proposed is a description of actual usage. I restrict my use of the term because it is considered uncivil regardless of usage and I wish to maintain civility in all my speech. Civility is one of the strongest points of ApolloHoax.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 4, 2010 15:28:31 GMT -4
Actually the thing I find the funniest is that I have been called a lair, a plaugerist, a CIA agent, and far worse by Hoax and Conspriacy Believers simply because I hold their beliefs under the spotlight of science. Others I know, including Jay here, have even had death threats from people. Mark Roberts has devoted an entire page to threats made against him for his dedicated research into 9/11, even having to report some of them to the Police. Debunkers routinely get banned from Conspriacy sites simply for daring to disagree with the other posters, and many Hoax and Conspriacy proponents simply refuse to back their arguments in an open forum. Yet porphyry turns up in our place and then starts to moan about how unfair we are and how we're all rude and and the moderation is totally biased.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 4, 2010 15:39:12 GMT -4
In fact porphyry, since this has been about PfT, perhaps you can tell us which is ruder, us calling them idiots for their complete garbage and total lack of anything resembling decent and logical research, or their founder saying this:
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 4, 2010 18:45:45 GMT -4
Did I say "idiot" or "bigot" were okay? No; I said "liar" was. If I told you that I had a degree in electrical engineering, that would be flatly untrue. (English, as it happens.) English? I've actually been wondering lately why you stopped correcting spelling mistakes. I know you always let Bill Thompson off the hook in that area, but it was open season on everyone else... ;D Does this mean I can stop using spell checker now before I post?
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Post by BertL on Feb 4, 2010 18:47:52 GMT -4
Well, I'm a first year student majoring in English so I was kind of hoping to be able to take over that job from gillianren.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 4, 2010 19:08:17 GMT -4
I have a degree in English Literature. And a minor in Dutch, as it happens.
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 4, 2010 19:09:15 GMT -4
Well, I'm a first year student majoring in English so I was kind of hoping to be able to take over that job from gillianren. You do know that it is a thankless job and it doesn't pay very well don't you?
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Post by BertL on Feb 4, 2010 19:27:29 GMT -4
Well, I'm a first year student majoring in English so I was kind of hoping to be able to take over that job from gillianren. You do know that it is a thankless job and it doesn't pay very well don't you? I'm just living the dream, man, just living the dream. Also Jason, you are now officially the second most cool person on this forum.
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Post by gillianren on Feb 4, 2010 23:02:03 GMT -4
I've actually been wondering lately why you stopped correcting spelling mistakes. I know you always let Bill Thompson off the hook in that area, but it was open season on everyone else... ;D I didn't correct Bill Thompson because it would have meant actually bothering to read his posts. It wasn't so much "letting him off the hook" as "keeping the fragile shreds of my mental health in place." I really think he was doing it on purpose, too. Please don't! (I had to add "Pacino" to mine today; there's great shame in me that I hadn't used it before.) I don't correct errors much without cause, but that doesn't mean [sniff] that they don't hurt me!
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Post by Obviousman on Feb 4, 2010 23:35:37 GMT -4
A friend of mine is a 747 captain and when he disagreed with Balsamo, "Captain Bob" banned him from Pft and threatened that if he should ever go to the US Balsamo would "exercise his Second Amendment rights" on him.
The guy is a psycho.
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Post by gillianren on Feb 5, 2010 2:00:03 GMT -4
He would . . . hold a gun . . . at him?
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Post by tedward on Feb 5, 2010 13:52:45 GMT -4
PFT has hundreds of members. How do you know that some of them aren't members here? The original poster obviously thought PFT has some value. The attack on PFT was something I'm sure that individual felt personally. Here is the list of the core membership of PFT: pilotsfor911truth.org/core.htmlIn addition to being insulting, the charge that these people are all idiots, liars and bigots is completely lacking credibility: Robert Balsamo 4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI Corporate Chief Pilot 135 Capt 121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET
Please excuse the snip, keeping the quote window down but assume the rest of the list is there. This is something that puzzles me and I find tickles that funny bone when such a topic should not. This was blasted across the interweb (well, certain sites) and the more it was looked at the bigger the foot in mouth moment it appeared despite the eminence of qualifications presented. Simple things were missed, or at least appeared to be. Then a mention of credibility? I shall draw my own conclusions.
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Post by scooter on Feb 5, 2010 22:19:33 GMT -4
PFT has hundreds of members. How do you know that some of them aren't members here? The original poster obviously thought PFT has some value. The attack on PFT was something I'm sure that individual felt personally. Here is the list of the core membership of PFT: pilotsfor911truth.org/core.htmlIn addition to being insulting, the charge that these people are all idiots, liars and bigots is completely lacking credibility: Robert Balsamo 4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI Corporate Chief Pilot 135 Capt 121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET
Please excuse the snip, keeping the quote window down but assume the rest of the list is there. This is something that puzzles me and I find tickles that funny bone when such a topic should not. This was blasted across the interweb (well, certain sites) and the more it was looked at the bigger the foot in mouth moment it appeared despite the eminence of qualifications presented. Simple things were missed, or at least appeared to be. Then a mention of credibility? I shall draw my own conclusions. Good catch! It does draw a snicker...i'm trying to figure the numbers out.
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Post by drewid on Feb 6, 2010 9:32:05 GMT -4
Sorry, I'm missing something. What's the anomaly?
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Post by scooter on Feb 6, 2010 9:56:55 GMT -4
Best as I can tell, he's the least qualified of the group...low hours, with no large jetliner time mentioned. I have acquaintences who are getting started in the airlines (at the bottom, commuters, charters, et al) with similar resumes. 4000 hours ain't "jack" in this business. And the "135 Capt" and "121 FO" (first officer/"co-pilot" I assume) is time, but not particularly impressive. And these times are in smaller turboprops and small commuter jets. Asa for thre remainder of the 4000 hours...Cessnas?
Independence Air went belly up some years ago, and ACA is an regional subset for Delta I believe.
Now, this doesn't mean he doesn't know how to fly, but it's an interestingly limited resume for someone leading a "pilots for truth" campaign.
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