Apollo 8 orbit

[spacewoman]

Sam Colby has uploaded a new video to his Apolloreality page. The video requires some serious explanation, as it shows the filming suddenly stop, rotate through 360 degrees, then film in reverse. How is this possible?

[Jason Thompson]

What was the frame rate at the time the film was taken? What manoeuvres did the spacecraft perform during that period? What was the actual angle of rotation (it looks a lot less than 360 degrees to me)?

[Bob B.]

Link, please.

[echnaton]

Feb 1, 2010 8:22:22 GMT -4 spacewoman said:

Sam Colby has uploaded a new video to his Apolloreality page. The video requires some serious explanation....

It probably does and it is quite certain that Colby will fail at the task. Remember, the burden of proof is on him.

[gwiz]

Feb 1, 2010 9:07:41 GMT -4 Bob B. said:

Link, please.

apolloreality.bravehost.com/

Hilarious. Colby shows a clip of the CSM over earth on Apollo 9 and claims it was taken on Apollo 8. He genuinely appears unable to tell the difference between the earth and the moon.

[Bob B.]

Feb 1, 2010 8:22:22 GMT -4 spacewoman said:

Sam Colby has uploaded a new video to his Apolloreality page. The video requires some serious explanation, as it shows the filming suddenly stop, rotate through 360 degrees, then film in reverse. How is this possible?

I don't see anything anomalous there. It looks to me that the scene rotates 180-degrees, not 360, which explains the apparent reversal of motion. And I don't see the sudden stop you're referring to, though, as the camera rotates, there does seem to be a brief moment when the camera motion and the orbital motion cancels out.

[JayUtah]

Feb 1, 2010 8:22:22 GMT -4 spacewoman said:

The video requires some serious explanation, as it shows the filming suddenly stop, rotate through 360 degrees, then film in reverse. How is this possible?

Uh, what are you talking about? What's so anomalous about a 180-degree yaw maneuver filmed at 6 fps? You do know that spacecraft can be steered, right?

[JayUtah]

Feb 1, 2010 14:31:03 GMT -4 Bob B. said:

...there does seem to be a brief moment when the camera motion and the orbital motion cancels out.

This will happen easily if the camera is not pointed straight down.

[svector]

I continue to marvel at the sheer numbers in the HB camp who have absolutely zero comprehension or grasp of the visual effect that results from a disparity in filmed and projected frame rates.

It's really quite astonishing.

[spacewoman]

Hi I was waiting to see what explanations you guys came back with, but I am afraid none of them answer my original query.
JASON Frame rate and angle does not come into it. I will repeat, how can a spacecraft orbiting a celestial body suddenly go into reverse orbit. It defies all laws of physics, and if you guys are as educated as you claim you are, then please explain, because as it stands the film is clearly fake, and I therefore side with Sam Colby on this issue. BOB B You cannot see what is blindingly obvious. ECHNATON Your reply does not make any sense at all. GWIZ The film is not Apollo 9. All of the film was broadcast on the Discovery channel as being Apollo 8. Are you telling me that Apollo 8 did not orbit the Earth. JAYUTAH It is not a 180 degree yaw, and anybody can see it is a full 360 degree rotation. I will repeat again, how can a spacecraft orbiting a celestial body, ie, the Moon, Earth, or any other planet, suddenley go into reverse orbit?

[scooter]

I see a sped up film looking down at the lunar surface. The spacecraft makes a 180 degree roll (not yaw) and continues filming throughout.
I am not seeing any orbit "reversal", as no previously passed landmarks return into the view. Any brief cancellation of apparent motion is simply the spacecraft rotating in synch with the passing scenery.
This is evidence of a spacecraft maneuvering, not a hoax.

[echnaton]

Feb 3, 2010 11:57:32 GMT -4 spacewoman said:

ECHNATON Your reply does not make any sense at all.


Let me clarify.

The Apollo missions have a large body of evidence supporting them that has been examined by experts in the relevant fields and found to be consistent with the missions taking place as shown. Sam Colby, on the other hand, has a long history of misinterpreting all sorts of information in his attempt to show the Apollo missions were fake.



In making the claim that the missions were fake, the burden of proof lies with the claimant, Colby in this case. Given his history and demonstrable lack of skills in interpreting evidence, why do you accept his view? Why do you accept his interpretation of this particular video when he has failed in almost all other attempts to interpret evidence?


I will repeat again, how can a spacecraft orbiting a celestial body, ie, the Moon, Earth, or any other planet, suddenley go into reverse orbit?

Why do you say that is what the film shows?

[Data Cable]

Feb 3, 2010 11:57:32 GMT -4 spacewoman said:

how can a spacecraft orbiting a celestial body suddenly go into reverse orbit.

The orbital characteristics did not change, simply the orientation of the camera. Picture it this way:

Imagine you are in a car traveling down the road and holding a video camera out the window, pointed straight down at the road, oriented with the top of the camera pointed in the direction of travel. Now, without the car changing direction or speed, rotate the camera on it's optical axis 180° so that the bottom of the camera is pointed in the direction of travel. From the camera's point of view, the direction of travel may appear to have changed, but the car's velocity has remained constant.

Are you telling me that Apollo 8 did not orbit the Earth.

Apollo 8 did not have an LM, therefore it was not the source of shot of the CSM "falling away" from the camera.

It is not a 180 degree yaw, and anybody can see it is a full 360 degree rotation.

If it were a full 360° rotation, then the direction of travel before and after rotation would be the same, not opposite.

[randombloke]

I got this far down the page before I had to give up:

In any case anyone with the slightest gumption knows that it is impossible to control a rocket engine.

Whoever this guy is, he clearly needs serious medical help and about twenty years of remedial education.

As for the video- there is no reversal; as pointed out, no landmarks reappear. All I see is a simple change of perspective.

[Jason Thompson]

Feb 3, 2010 11:57:32 GMT -4 spacewoman said:

JASON Frame rate and angle does not come into it.

On the contrary, it is essential to the argument you are making.

I will repeat, how can a spacecraft orbiting a celestial body suddenly go into reverse orbit.

It can't, but you have yet to establish that that is actually what has happened. The reason I asked about frame rate, angle of turn and possible manoeuvres is that:

a) frame rate will tell you how fast the spacecraft is actually moving over the surface and how fast it turns.

b) angle will tell you how far round it turned. You say 360 degrees. I say it looks a lot less than that, so kindly measure it and substantiate your claim of an impossible reverse

c) the spacecraft can be turned around without changing direction.

as it stands the film is clearly fake,

In other words, it is fake until you can understand it? How incredibly arrogant. 'It is fake' is not the default argument here. Your expectations need to be examined first.

It is not a 180 degree yaw, and anybody can see it is a full 360 degree rotation.

I disagree. Instead of saying 'anyone can see', prove it. That's how discussion works here.