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Post by lukepemberton on Jan 7, 2011 17:53:49 GMT -4
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Post by drewid on Jan 9, 2011 14:03:12 GMT -4
Huzzah! This calls for Mr B
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Post by PeterB on Jan 10, 2011 11:02:40 GMT -4
Yes, we Aussies played like the English had played for the last 20-odd years, and all I can do is offer a hearty "Well done, chaps." It says something about the poor quality of Australian batting that one of Australia's bowlers had a better batting average and scored more runs than the Australian captain who, in previous years, has been rated one of the world's best batsmen. It's not as though the talent was mssing, but the application sure was. All of a sudden, the American Football is looking interesting. Huzzah! This calls for Mr BHa! Brilliant! Never heard of him before.
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Post by echnaton on Jan 10, 2011 14:41:30 GMT -4
So what is a good batting average in cricket? How much below a good batter would the average of a bowler be?
In baseball, most non-pitching players on a strong team will average between ~.250 and ~.300 with the very best above .300. On the other hand a pitcher will have an average broadly surrounding .125 with the best in the low .200s.
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Post by lukepemberton on Jan 10, 2011 20:51:32 GMT -4
So what is a good batting average in cricket? How much below a good batter would the average of a bowler be? For a career, a batting average of 50 is the grail. 45 is a very good career average. Over a 5 test series, an average of 40 is a good contribution to a series. Sir Donald Bradman scored a career average of 99.94. He only needed four more runs from his final test innings, and was out for a duck (zero runs). There are several statistics for bowling. Average, strike rate and economy. Average is the number of runs scored against the bowler for each wicket. In test cricket, anything below 30 is a good average. Strike rate is the average number of balls per wicket. In test cricket, 60 balls per wicket is a good rate. This statistic is not quoted so much in test cricket. Economy is runs scored per over against the bowler. Anything below 3.00 is pretty good. Shane Warne and Glen McGrath had career economies of around 2.50 (From memory). Incredible. If you are into sporting stats, then cricket is a great game.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 11, 2011 6:12:34 GMT -4
So what is a good batting average in cricket? How much below a good batter would the average of a bowler be? For a career, a batting average of 50 is the grail. 45 is a very good career average. Over a 5 test series, an average of 40 is a good contribution to a series. Sir Donald Bradman scored a career average of 99.94. He only needed four more runs from his final test innings, and was out for a duck (zero runs). It might be worth noting for those that don't know, that a Batsman's average is the number of runs he gets divided by the number of times he has been dismissed (not the number of innings played), so if he scored 14 in the first innings and 75* (not out) in the second, he'd have an average for the game of 89. If in the next test he only batted once and scored a 37 before getting out, then his average for the series would drop to 63. ((89+37)/2). As you can see, Bradman was in a league of his own, though the game has also changed a great deal since his time. If you look at the man who is considered the best modern day batsman, Sachin Tendulkar, he has a career batting average of 56.95 with 51 centuries (100+ runs).
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Post by PeterB on Jan 11, 2011 10:21:44 GMT -4
So what is a good batting average in cricket? How much below a good batter would the average of a bowler be? In baseball, most non-pitching players on a strong team will average between ~.250 and ~.300 with the very best above .300. On the other hand a pitcher will have an average broadly surrounding .125 with the best in the low .200s. The difference is a bit greater. The career batting averages of the Australian captain (Ricky Ponting) and vice-captain (Michael Clarke), both specialist batsmen are about 51 and 46 respectively. These are good averages for batsmen. In this series, Ponting's average was about 16 and Clarke's was 21. By contrast, a specialist bowler will do well to have a batting average of 20, and most are closer to 10. Another interesting indication of the difference between the two sides was that Australia selected 17 different players during the series (teams of 11), while England used only 13. Australia selected nine different specialist batsmen for six specialist batting positions, while England used the same six specialist batsmen throughout the series.
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Post by echnaton on Jan 11, 2011 10:26:27 GMT -4
I see a little more now. Since I've never seen a cricket game it is all new to me. So unlike baseball, the batter regularly hits the ball and may do so many times in an inning. I am not either a stat buff or even a big sports fan. I watched my third NFL game of the season this weekend.
So then what is test cricket and what other flavors of the game are there?
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Post by PeterB on Jan 11, 2011 12:00:26 GMT -4
I see a little more now. Since I've never seen a cricket game it is all new to me. So unlike baseball, the batter regularly hits the ball and may do so many times in an inning. That's right. When you're batting, you can stay in as long as you like, until you get out...as opposed to the three strikes available to a batter in baseball. Heh, I watched parts of three of the four wild-card games this last weekend (one of them on a TV at work). (And cheering for the Patriots.) A test match is the complete version of cricket, played between two countries. The term "test" is also used for international fixtures in other sports, such as rugby union. In the complete version of the game, each team gets two innings, and each team can bat for as long as it likes, until ten batsmen are out. Test matches are played over five days (six hours per day for a total of 30 hours of play). Matches at the state or county level are usually four days long. In local competitions, matches usually last for two days, though it's rare for both teams to be able to bat twice, so results are often determined on the runs scored in each team's first innings. The other main version of cricket is the one-day game, or limited overs cricket. In this game, each team gets to bat once, and there's a strict limit on the number of balls (pitches) they're allowed to face. In the original version of this game, each team gets to face 300 balls, and games usually last all day (although some games are day-night matches, starting after lunch and finishing in the late evening. In the new version, called Twenty-20, each team gets to face 120 balls, and games usually last about 4 hours. International games are simply called One Day Internationals or Twenty-20 Internationals, and don't have the same cachet as test matches, even though they're more popular and more profitable. Test matches between Australia and England are played roughly every two years, in series of five or six matches. The trophy played for is called "The Ashes", and, bizarrely, it's a late 19th century cremation urn. Wikipedia has the story if you're interested. Anyway, even though England and Australia are currently the 4th and 5th rated cricket nations, this last series gained more coverage than the concurrent series between India and South Africa, even though they're the 1st and 2nd rated cricket nations.
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Post by echnaton on Jan 11, 2011 13:48:40 GMT -4
Thanks for all the insight. That seems to be an complicated sport without even going into the rules of play. At least to the casual observer. A little knowledge certainly raises more question than it answers. I could certainly see how it would be a fun game to attend. You make it a whole day event, a completion, a picnic, a chance to chat with friends and enjoy the outdoors.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 11, 2011 19:13:12 GMT -4
Thanks for all the insight. That seems to be an complicated sport without even going into the rules of play. At least to the casual observer. A little knowledge certainly raises more question than it answers. It's not overly complex until you start going into the rules quite deeply. The basics are this. The Game in played on an oval ground of diameters between 150 and 180 yards with a pitch in the centre (usually pressed or rolled grass). Pitches are 20.12 metres (22 yards) long and 3m (10 feet) wide. They have markings painted on it at each end to indicate where the stumps will be placed and to define the area where the batter is considered "in" (this is called the crease.) It is approximately 2 feet in front of the "Wicket". Both ends are identical. (There are other markings but they are irrelevant to get the basics of the game.) The "Wickets" are a set of three "Stumps" or basically 28 inch (71 cm) high sticks about 2 inches in diameter and set about 3-4 inches apart in a straight line so the center stump is in the center of the pitch. On the top of the stumps and grooves and resting in these, so they are between the stumps, are placed two more objects (basically fancy sticks) called the bails. The game is played by two teams composed of 11 players each. The game consists of Innings during which the objective of the fielding team is to take 10 "wickets" (or outs) while conceeding as few runs as they can. A game may have either 1 Innings for each team, or 2, depending on the type of game being played. During the game the fielding team must have 11 players on the field, one of who is the Bowler who is responsible for delivering the ball to the facing batter, and one of whom is the wicket keeper who is there to stop the ball if it passes the batter. The other fielding players are placed in various positions about the field based on the version of the game, the style of bowling, and the fielding Captain's thoughts at the time. The Batting teaming must have two players on the field at all times during their innings, and if they cannot do so, they are considered out (hence why only 10 wickets need to be taken despite having 11 players.) Once a batsman "loses his wicket" (is out) he must leave the field and the next batsman replaces him. Each batsman can only bat once per innings (except in the case of retirement by injury where they can return after having left the field.) The Batsman can make as many runs as he can before getting out, or retiring. The batsmen stand at opposite ends of the pitch behind their own crease. To play the game, a bowler must deliever the ball to the facing batsman (the batsman at the other end of the pitch from the bowler) The ball must be delievered with a straight arm swung over the shoulder. Generally it should have one bounce off the pitch before reaching the batsman (occasionally it doesn't which is called a full toss. If it bounces more then once it is a no-ball). There are various techniques to bowling that determine the ball speed, where it pitches (bounces off of the pitch) and what it does both in the air and after hitting the pitch. A bowler will bowl 6 balls, which as called an Over, and then a different player will bowl from the other end of the pitch for the next Over so that each over is bowled from alternating ends of the pitch. In limited over matches, a bowler may only bowl a certain number of Overs based on the total number in the game. In test matches a bowler may bowl as many overs as he likes. A over can only be completed by a different bowler if the first is injuried during that over and cannot continue. The ball is considered "live" from the moment the bowler starts to bowl to the moment it is returned to bowler. The ball is dead while the bowler is preparing to bowl, between overs, while the Umpire holds it, after having crossed a boundry, after a wicket is taken, and whenever the Umpire calls "Dead ball." To score a run, while the ball is live, the two batsmen must run down the pitch and part of their body or their bat (while held) must cross the opposite crease line and touch the ground beyond it. They can do this multiple times if they wish, but if they do not have some part of their body, or held bat, grounded behind the crease line when an opposition player hits the wickets with the ball (or a hand/glove holding the ball) then they are out (this is called being run out.) The other way to score runs is to hit the ball beyond the boundry of the field. If you do this on the full, it is 6 runs (this includes bouncing off a player who is in the air), if it touches something connected to the ground, or touches the ground before touching or passing the boundry, it is 4 runs. Runs that the batsmen have made by running on the pitch are not counted if the ball reaches the boundry. The fielding team can also give away runs called extras by poor bowling (wides and no-balls) or allowing the batsmen to make a run without having hit the ball (leg-byes, byes). Wides and No-Balls require that a new ball is bowled as they do not count against the 6 balls in the over. A batsman cannot be dismissed on a no-ball, unless he is attempting a run and is run-out as discribed above. All runs that are made on a no-ball are counted, so it is possible to score 7 runs from a no ball if a six is hit. The batsman can lose his wicket (get out) in the following manners. 1) When being bowled to the batsman, the ball hits the stumps and dislogdes the bails either directly from the bowler, or after having touched the batsman, or the bat. (Bowled) 2) When being bowled to, the batsman steps onto his wickets, or hits the wickets with his bat dislodging the bails. (Hit Wicket) 3) When being bowled to, the batsman leaves his crease and a member of the fielding team removes the bails from the wickets either with the ball, or a hand/glove holding the ball before he can return. (Stumped) 4) When being bowled to the batsman, the ball hits the batsman's leg in a direct line with the stumps and the Umpire judges that had it not hit the batsman's leg it would have hit the wicket. (LBW - leg before wicket) 5) When attempting to make a run (or for any other reason other than being bowled to,) the batsman leaves his crease while the ball is live and a member of the fielding team removes the bails from the wickets either with the ball, or a hand/glove holding the ball before he can return. (Run Out) 6) The ball is caught by a member of the fielding team directly after it has come from the batsman's bat, glove, or forearm, or indirectly as long as the ball has not touched the ground first (eg it might have hit the batsman's shoe after the bat then been caught, or may have hit another fielding player and then been caught.) (Caught) The winner is determined by whoever has the most runs. If the team batting second scores 1 or more runs than they require before the time or number of balls allowed, then the game ends early. If the team that set the score (usually batting first) wins it is said that they won by so many runs. If the chasing team wins then it is said that they won by so many wickets. There is more to it that I have given here, but it's enough to get a good handle on what is happening in a game. And even watch the game on occassion.
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Post by lukepemberton on Jan 11, 2011 20:29:37 GMT -4
It appears PhantomWolf has more patience than I do. Thanks for explaining the game so well. I see you missed out the more obscure methods of dismissing a batsman - thankfully. You missed handling the ball, timed out, obstructing a fielder and hitting the ball twice.
Echnaton : The short version of the game is known as 20-20 or T20. The side that 'fields' first has 20 overs to 'get' the other team out. The side that bats first attempts to score as many runs as possible in those 20 overs. The teams then swap over. The team that bats second is known as the 'chasing' team, and needs to score more than the opponent within their 20 overs before they lose their wickets. Say for example the first batting team score 160 and loses 6 wickets in 20 overs. Their score is called as:
160 for 6 (i.e. 160 runs for the loss of 6 wickets)
If the second team then bats and scores 161 runs for 7 wickets, they win by 3 wickets. That is, they win because they still have 3 wickets remaining. If the second team scores 147 runs and loses all its wickets, or cannot make the score within their overs, then the first batting team wins by 13 runs.
20-20 is a good way to learn the basics of the game, such as how teams score and get out. There is a longer version of the game, known at one day cricket. Each team has 50 overs. If you can understand the limited over versions of the game, then the long version of the game is easy enough to follow. It just takes a slight extension to the concepts.
In test cricket, each side has two chances to bat. If a team bats first and scores 600 runs, it can make the second team bat again if the second team score less than 400 runs. That is, if the second team does not get within 200 runs. This is called following on.
Let's say a team bats and scores 600 runs, and a second team bats and scores 400 runs. The second team is made to bat again (follow on). The second team bats again, and scores 150 runs. The first team wins by an innings and 50 runs.
If the second team bats again and scores 250 runs, then the first team has to bat again, and must score 51 runs before getting out to win the game. If it does this without losing a wicket, the first team wins by 10 wickets. If it does this and loses a wicket, the first team wins by 9 wickets. If the first team loses all of its wickets before making 51 runs, then it loses by the amount of runs it fell short of 650 (400 + 250).
Teams can also declare in test cricket. A team will do this if it is so far ahead it thinks it cannot lose the game. For example, if a team scores 600 runs in its first innings and lose only 5 wickets, it will declare. 600 runs will take about two days to score. The team will be 600-5 dec. The second team then bats and scores 450 runs all out. It is 150 behind. However, it has avoided the follow on. At this point there will just under 2 days of play. The first team then bats again and scores 250-4 by the end of the fourth day. The first team is now 400 runs ahead. It declares on 250-4 dec. Why would it do this? There is only one day left and scoring 400 runs in one day is a difficult task. Also, scoring more than 400 runs to win a game in the fourth batting innings has only been done a few times. The first team is in a strong position to win the game having declared twice.
The second team now has to score 401 runs to win. Five things can happen.
(1) Second team scores less than 401 and loses all wickets before end of play on fifth day - first team wins by a runs margin.
(2) Second team scores 401 runs within the day before losing all wickets and wins by a wickets margin.
(3) Second team bats for the rest of the day, scoring less than 401, but does not lose all wickets. The match is drawn.
(4) The second team score 400 exactly, but loses its 10th wicket before making 401 runs. The game is tied (not drawn)
(5) It rains all day, play cannot start and the game is drawn.
In the recent test series between England and Australia, England won 3-1. The first test was drawn. England won three tests by an innings. In other words, they scored more runs in one innings than Australia made in 2 innings. I must add that Australia beat England very well in the other test, winning by almost 300 runs. England were set 391 to win in their second innings, and only scored 123 (from memory).
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 11, 2011 22:45:49 GMT -4
It appears PhantomWolf has more patience than I do. Thanks for explaining the game so well. I see you missed out the more obscure methods of dismissing a batsman - thankfully. You missed handling the ball, timed out, obstructing a fielder and hitting the ball twice. Thanks. I did try and keep it to the basics, but even that was long. I also didn't explain how you bowl a No-Ball or a Wide, how they can differ between game types, and what the difference between a Leg-Bye and a Bye is. I didn't explain the various bowl techniques either. I thought this might need a little clarification. You don't have to get 600 runs to make the opponents Follow On. To be able to force a Follow On you just need to have managed to get the opposing team out for 200 or more run less than your team scored. This number also changes depending on the length of the match. A 3 or 4 it is 150, a 2 day match is 100, and a 1 day match is 75. The other thing that was hinted at but not said explictly is that the leading team doesn't have to enforce the Follow On if they don't want to. For those that are interested more cricket stuff... The complete Laws of CricketThe GroundThe PitchFielding Positions and TacticsBowlingTypes of BowlersWicket KeepingBattingRunsExtras (runs)Dismissal
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Post by lukepemberton on Jan 12, 2011 0:03:01 GMT -4
I didn't explain the various bowl techniques either. Now that is interesting from many perspectives. The physics is interesting in its own right, not to mention the tactics of those bowling techniques and how the pitch comes into play I thought this might need a little clarification. You don't have to get 600 runs to make the opponents Follow On. To be able to force a Follow On you just need to have managed to get the opposing team out for 200 or more run less than your team scored. This number also changes depending on the length of the match. A 3 or 4 it is 150, a 2 day match is 100, and a 1 day match is 75. The other thing that was hinted at but not said explictly is that the leading team doesn't have to enforce the Follow On if they don't want to. Thanks for clarifying, I thought I made implied that from my example. Obviously not. Trying to explain cricket is hard. We've have not covered the LBW rule yet It is also worth noting that if substantial time is lost to rain before a ball is bowled, then the follow on target is reduced. So, if the first day is lost to rain, the follow on in test cricket is reduced to 150.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 12, 2011 3:06:45 GMT -4
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