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Post by chew on Jan 18, 2011 21:08:26 GMT -4
A HB once proposed that a satellite was put in Medium Earth Orbit to relay communications from Area 51 to Mission Control in order to perpetuate the hoax.
All absudity of a hovering satellite aside I got to thinking how much fuel this evil NWO satellite would need to carry. But I think I got it wrong. Here's what I did:
Assuming: Evil NWO satellite placed at 20,000 km above the Earth. Plane changes are not needed. Fuel to get into position is neglected for purposes of this exercise. It stays in the line of sight of the Moon. Satellite must remain in position for 7 days. Isp 300 s
Gravitational acceleration at 20,000 km above the Earth: 0.572377678 m/s2
Velocity needed to stay in Moon's LOS: 65.0 m/s (FYI the orbital velocity at that distance is 3887.8 m/sec)
Centripetal force at the above velocity and distance: 0.000160256 m/s2
Difference between centripetal force and gravitational acceleration: 0.572217421 m/s2
The total acceleration required is: 0.572217421 m/s2 * the number of seconds in a week (7 * 24 * 60 *60) = 346,077 m/s
Plugging that into the the Rocket Equation yields 1.2234x1051 kg for every kg of payload.
or 2.05x1026 times the mass of the Earth.
That can't be right! Is that right?
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Post by randombloke on Jan 18, 2011 22:20:25 GMT -4
It's probably in the right ball-park - staying up without a proper orbit, or something to sit on, is expensive.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jan 18, 2011 22:32:43 GMT -4
I don't see any errors.
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Post by Count Zero on Jan 18, 2011 22:34:02 GMT -4
For an exhaust velocity of 3kps, I got a mass ratio of 1.35x10^50, so you're in the ballpark.
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Post by Count Zero on Jan 18, 2011 23:13:36 GMT -4
Btw, at 20,000 km, the parallax for two telescopes 12,000 km apart on Earth is ~33.4 degrees (of almost 67 times the visual diameter of the Moon).
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Post by Glom on Jan 19, 2011 9:46:40 GMT -4
So such a scheme is a no go then?
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Post by chew on Jan 19, 2011 10:03:50 GMT -4
So such a scheme is a no go then? Well, let's not jump to conclusions.
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Post by Count Zero on Jan 19, 2011 11:00:05 GMT -4
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Post by chew on Jan 19, 2011 13:55:49 GMT -4
According to NASA TM-X-55492 / X-506-66-156 (page 21 (PDF page 29), 3rd paragraph) from the ALSJ website the MSFN dish antennae had a worst case angular accuracy of 0.025 o. The maximum parallax between the center of the Moon and the L-1 Lagrangian point is 0.1 o. If the ebil gubmint had put an evil satellite at L-1 do you think the discrepancy would have raised red flags at the MSFN stations?
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Post by gonetoplaid on Jan 20, 2011 22:30:10 GMT -4
Hehe. The hoax believers will have a really hard time explaining this article published in 1978 in the Soviet Astronomy Letters, vol. 4, p.302. The following link is a pdf document which is quite interesting reading: articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1978SvAL....4..302N&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdfIn a nutshell, the Soviets used their RATAN-600 radio telescope to do this: "The first experiment for measuring the coordinates with the various sectors of the RATAN-600 is reported. The selenographic coordinates of the ALSEP transmitters deployed on the lunar surface by the Apollo 12 and 14-17 crews have been measured to 1°.0-1°.5 accuracy (or 12-15" in right ascension and declination) with a 1'.5X1° beam." In other words, the Soviets confirmed that radio transmissions coming from the ALSEPS deployed by the Apollo 12, 14, 15, 16 and 17 missions really are coming from the lunar surface, and that they determined the celestial radio sources of those transmissions to a remarkable 12 to 15 arcseconds in both right ascension and declination. That precision translates to a 1°.0-1°.5 accuracy (lunar surface latitude and longitude) on the Moon.
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Post by gillianren on Jan 20, 2011 23:47:17 GMT -4
Wheat. Remember the wheat.
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Post by Count Zero on Jan 21, 2011 8:11:48 GMT -4
Iz not wheat. Iz quadro-triticale!
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Post by blackstar on Jan 21, 2011 8:21:34 GMT -4
Hehe. The hoax believers will have a really hard time explaining this article published in 1978 in the Soviet Astronomy Letters, vol. 4, p.302. This is where you misunderstand the HB mentality. Sure explaining such things away is hard if you are bound by trivialities like logic, reason, evidence, and the laws of physics. Put those aside and you can dismiss this article with an airy wave and a comment about the Illuminati.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 21, 2011 15:12:55 GMT -4
Iz not wheat. Iz quadro-triticale! Invented by little old lady in Leningrad!
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Post by lukepemberton on Jan 21, 2011 16:27:43 GMT -4
This is where you misunderstand the HB mentality. Sure explaining such things away is hard if you are bound by trivialities like logic, reason, evidence, and the laws of physics. Put those aside and you can dismiss this article with an airy wave and a comment about the Illuminati. Damn, everyone is summing up things in a nutshell today... so true Blackstar. Fly them to the moon and stand them next to the descent stages, and they would not believe it. Nothing will be good enough for them. After investing years of emotional energy in the hoax, how many of them are likely to say, 'So, I was wrong. Sorry.' The likes of Jarrah White, Jack White, Duane Daman et al, will go to their graves believing in the moon hoax. That's the bottom line. Not one of them is interested in the truth, only their over inflated egos and sense of all encompassing knowledge. It takes a lot to admit that one was duped by a Fox special.
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