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Post by ka9q on May 13, 2011 18:44:52 GMT -4
This is the title of a new book; the author is Jonathan Kay. NPR's Diane Rehms interviewed the author yesterday.
The Apollo "hoax" was, of course, among the many odd conspiracy theories he studied. Kay says that there seemed to be far fewer adherents of this particular conspiracy theory than he had expected, at least in comparison to the "truthers" (those who think the Bush administration planned the 9/11 attacks) and the "birthers" (those who think Barack Obama was born outside the United States).
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Post by gillianren on May 13, 2011 22:09:48 GMT -4
Honestly, I think older ones have less importance to a lot of people. I don't think the average young person bothers questioning Apollo, because it was so long ago. Everything before a certain time is imaginary anyway, right?
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Post by echnaton on May 13, 2011 22:10:01 GMT -4
I guess it is easier to argue that some thing happened for some nefarious reason compared to claiming that something didn't happen for another reason. And you ultimately get more people to pay attention to you because most people remember 9/11 while we old geezers show watched Armstrong land are getting fewer in number and are harder to sell to.
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Post by randombloke on May 14, 2011 0:19:49 GMT -4
I wonder if, in forty or fifty years or so, there will be conspiracy theorists claiming that there never was a "World Trade Center" and not only was its destruction hoaxed, its entire existence was added to the historical record as an excuse for <$socio-economic_revolution>....
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Post by gillianren on May 14, 2011 0:37:10 GMT -4
It doesn't seem to fit into the pattern of how conspiracy theories develop over time, no.
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Post by Data Cable on May 14, 2011 8:45:05 GMT -4
I wonder if, in forty or fifty years or so, there will be conspiracy theorists claiming that there never was a "World Trade Center" 40 or 50 years? I've already argued for that theory against truthers. They don't know how to deal when the "conspiracy" steps outside certain boundaries. So if they wanna argue epistemology, I just go reductio ad absurdum on 'em and claim that every photo, video and eyewitness account purporting that two 110-story buildings ever stood side-by-side on the island of Manhattan are fakes and lies.
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Post by ka9q on May 15, 2011 8:56:20 GMT -4
I like it! Reductio ad absurdum is a great idea. So what is their reaction? Do they start trying to defend the reality of the WTC? I can visualize it now. I like it!
I should try this on some Apollo hoaxers.
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Post by Count Zero on May 15, 2011 11:42:56 GMT -4
That's awesome! I wish we'd thought to try this on Rocky/DavidC: "No plane hit the Pentagon." "What Pentagon? Prove that any such place exists. No, those pictures could have been faked. People who say they've seen it or been their could be lying or hypnotized. Construction records can be faked. Satellite pictures could be faked. People could be threatened or bribed to go along with "the official story" that the Pentagon exists... Etc, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc..." As an extra added bonus, I just spent a week in the D.C. area and never once laid eyes on this so-called "Pentagon", which is supposed to be one of the worlds largest buildings! Just don't ask me to prove I was there.
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Post by randombloke on May 15, 2011 12:37:45 GMT -4
Oh no you don't! The Pentagon totally exists. Just not where everyone thinks it is. You know Area 51? Not there either.
The real Pentagon is buried under Yellowstone - the balsa wood mock-up everyone thinks is the real thing was placed there by the same robot landers that NASA used to fake the moon landing hardware for the LRO cameras.
What's really interesting is that the people who work there don't know the actual location of the place because all the exterior doors are actually captured alien teleportal devices that link to the real one instantly and seamlessly.
Yeah.
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Post by PhantomWolf on May 15, 2011 21:08:40 GMT -4
I wonder if, in forty or fifty years or so, there will be conspiracy theorists claiming that there never was a "World Trade Center" 40 or 50 years? I've already argued for that theory against truthers. They don't know how to deal when the "conspiracy" steps outside certain boundaries. So if they wanna argue epistemology, I just go reductio ad absurdum on 'em and claim that every photo, video and eyewitness account purporting that two 110-story buildings ever stood side-by-side on the island of Manhattan are fakes and lies. Hey, you stole my copyrighted conspriacy theory, I even have cherry picked quotes proving that towers weren't there and that there were no injuries.
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Post by echnaton on May 16, 2011 7:39:20 GMT -4
The Pentagon totally exists. Just not where everyone thinks it is. [buzzkill] Everyone thinks it is Washington, DC. But it really is in Virginia.[/buzzkill]
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Post by randombloke on May 16, 2011 8:05:28 GMT -4
Dammit! It's not funny if you explain the joke.
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Post by frenat on May 16, 2011 17:09:54 GMT -4
That's awesome! I wish we'd thought to try this on Rocky/DavidC: "No plane hit the Pentagon." "What Pentagon? Prove that any such place exists. No, those pictures could have been faked. People who say they've seen it or been their could be lying or hypnotized. Construction records can be faked. Satellite pictures could be faked. People could be threatened or bribed to go along with "the official story" that the Pentagon exists... Etc, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc..." As an extra added bonus, I just spent a week in the D.C. area and never once laid eyes on this so-called "Pentagon", which is supposed to be one of the worlds largest buildings! Just don't ask me to prove I was there. He's currently getting spanked on JREF if you really want to deal with him.
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Post by scooter on May 16, 2011 20:07:02 GMT -4
I was in the Pentagon...once...at least that's what the sign at the rail stop said it was. Got lost as hell in there, wandering from ring to ring, as I was walking, there was a "decor change", then a couple of stiff Marines, with bayonetted weapons, and a door that said something to the effect of "Secretary of Defense"... ...it was one of those "well, THIS isn't where I'm supposed to be" moments...
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Post by Count Zero on May 16, 2011 20:52:50 GMT -4
I also got lost in the Pentagon once, in the early '90s. After much wandering on a lower level, I came to a very long, very wide hallway. There was no one around. The hall was lit by flourescent lights and painted in that awful frog-spit green institutional shade that was inexplicably popular before I was born.
However, at the very end of the hall I saw a splash of very bright colors. Curious, I walked down the hall - and walked, and walked, and walked. The color pattern became more vibrant and complex as I got closer, but I still could not comprehend what it was. Suddenly I realized that it was spray-painted graffitti! How in Hell did it get here?!
Finally, I got to the end of the hall and found myself in an exhibit area; and here - in its well-lit place of honor - was the Pentagon's Cold War victory trophy: A 10' x 10' section of the Berlin Wall.
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