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Post by fattydash on Jul 6, 2011 16:04:20 GMT -4
For Jupiter.
One does not know what Borman has. that is the point in asking the questions that were never asked.
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Post by echnaton on Jul 6, 2011 16:15:51 GMT -4
One does not know what Borman has. that is the point in asking the questions that were never asked. If you don't know what caused Borman's illness, then how can you claim it was not handled properly either during the mission or afterwards?
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Post by scooter on Jul 6, 2011 16:24:10 GMT -4
To the "doctor(s)"... Ever heard of medical confidentiality? Not everything from the missions is going to be in the "debrief". They still go "secure" on the shuttle/ISS when talking to the flight surgeons.
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Post by echnaton on Jul 6, 2011 16:47:36 GMT -4
To the "doctor(s)"... Ever heard of medical confidentiality? Not everything from the missions is going to be in the "debrief". They still go "secure" on the shuttle/ISS when talking to the flight surgeons. This is exactly the question he is begging in his arguments.
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Post by chrlz on Jul 6, 2011 17:15:08 GMT -4
As per the other thread, I apologise for repeating myself but for the sake of completion: To 'fattydash', Hi, DrTea, MaryB, BSpassky, BFischer, Sicilian, etc..Over at BAUT, this troll: - refused to give citations - made some actionable claims and then backed down - used strawmen at every opportunity - avoided direct questions and so on. Do NOT let him/her get away with those techniques here. I invite readers to take a look hereWhen I have a little more time, I'll provide a list of all the false claims, uncited quotes, and unanswered questions so s/he can answer those issues here. BTW, I think these displays of incompetence are VERY useful to show: - the complete ignorance of Apollo deniers - their willingness to use ANY behavior they think will help their cause, including lying about their claims and also their non-existent 'expertise', and pretending they are more than one person. Me, I'd be ashamed. But, I understand their desperation - it is a lost cause after all.
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Post by tedward on Jul 6, 2011 17:32:58 GMT -4
For Jupiter. One does not know what Borman has. that is the point in asking the questions that were never asked. Have a read. Looks like the events make sense? Would appear the doctor spoke to Borman after the event. Have I got it wrong? history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/06day2_green.htm
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Post by ka9q on Jul 6, 2011 17:44:28 GMT -4
Becoming a doctor generally requires an above-average intelligence and a close and methodical attention to detail and the scientific method, all of which are incompatible with believing that Apollo was a hoax. So I'm somewhat skeptical that fattydash is indeed a physician as he claims. But I'll assume for the sake of argument that he is.
It's much more clear that he's simply not very well acquainted with the record of Apollo 8. There was indeed intensive discussion of Borman's condition during the mission and a differential diagnosis. However, this was much delayed by the crew's reluctance to discuss the problem openly on the A/G channel. As is well known to anyone who has actually studied the record, the crew recorded their concerns on tape and asked the ground to dump and listen to it. This took quite a bit of time. By the time a private medical conference could be held, Borman insisted that he had recovered and the issue was then moot. At that point there was little to do but continue the mission.
If fattydash is actually a doctor as he claims, he'd know that a diagnosis of a gastrointestinal virus is inconsistent with the fact that neither of the other two crew members got sick. These viruses are infamously contagious; witness the problems on certain cruise ships in recent years. They spread by the fecal-oral route, and given the highly un-hygenic environment aboard Apollo 8 it strains credulity to think that the other two astronauts could have avoided infection.
Post-mission analysis concluded that Borman most likely suffered from space adaptation syndrome ("space sickness").
That Borman flew on Gemini without getting sick doesn't mitigate against this as there was very little room to move around in a Gemini cabin and space adaptation syndrome is known to happen only when there's room to move and make sudden turning movements. It is also known to clear up in about a day, which is why Shuttle missions to the ISS generally take a leisurely 3 days to reach the ISS even when they could reach it more quickly.
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Post by echnaton on Jul 6, 2011 18:13:29 GMT -4
As per the other thread, I apologise for repeating myself but for the sake of completion: To 'fattydash', Hi, DrTea, MaryB, BSpassky, BFischer, Sicilian, etc..Over at BAUT, this troll: - refused to give citations - made some actionable claims and then backed down - used strawmen at every opportunity - avoided direct questions and so on. The behavior was quickly becoming apparent, and knowing he is a refugee from BAUT, makes the problem even more clear. I fully expect to see the same tactics and fully expect he will ultimately be banned when the lack of response to questions becomes more than even we tolerant souls can bear. As always we await a hoax believer that will actually support a claim.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jul 6, 2011 19:42:00 GMT -4
Apollo's fraudulence is quite obvious to medical personal who have paused and considered the details. The fact that astronauts Borman and Haise became sick as they did and never were appropriately "evaluated" demonstrates beyond question the bogus nature of these excursions to where, I know not. As a matter of fact, one may surmise none other than the primary Apollo doc, Charles Berry, was in on the fix. I'm going to respond to this before reading the rest of the thread... which pretty much guaranties that I'm going to repeat what someone else already said... but any way... Why would there be sick astronauts in a faked mission to the Moon? If the whole thing was scripted and filmed (presumably) weeks or months before the supposed mission then there would be no problems such as sick astronauts. If an astronaut/actor got sick they could either delay filming until he got better or they could even bring in his understudy. Surely they wouldn't try to improvise the whole thing live! That would risk an astronaut with a sudden conscience from announcing to the world that the whole thing was a sham. If they added a sick astronaut to add some drama then why didn't they add a more detailed medical evaluation to the script as well? So, fattydash, your medical degree doesn't impress me here because you are failing the logic test miserably. If you really are a doctor then you don't seem to appreciate the confidentiality of your patients, and I hope you aren't MY doctor. Astronauts deserve some privacy too, you know, so I am not at all surprised that NASA didn't announce the details of their medical evaluations to the entire world.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jul 6, 2011 19:52:17 GMT -4
As per the other thread, I apologise for repeating myself but for the sake of completion: To 'fattydash', Hi, DrTea, MaryB, BSpassky, BFischer, Sicilian, etc..Over at BAUT, this troll: - refused to give citations - made some actionable claims and then backed down - used strawmen at every opportunity - avoided direct questions and so on. Do NOT let him/her get away with those techniques here. I invite readers to take a look hereWhen I have a little more time, I'll provide a list of all the false claims, uncited quotes, and unanswered questions so s/he can answer those issues here. BTW, I think these displays of incompetence are VERY useful to show: - the complete ignorance of Apollo deniers - their willingness to use ANY behavior they think will help their cause, including lying about their claims and also their non-existent 'expertise', and pretending they are more than one person. Me, I'd be ashamed. But, I understand their desperation - it is a lost cause after all. Thanks for that, chrlz. I recognized one of those names as one I had recently approved. I've deleted that account. I also deleted another account that he created today. fattydash: if you wish to discuss this topic with us stick to your current account. If I catch you creating more sock puppet accounts I will ban you.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 6, 2011 20:44:59 GMT -4
The point as regards to why script an illness in a fake Apollo mission has to due with the perception of authenticity. It simply makes the whole thing more "realistic". Who would fake sick astronauts? And it sort of works until one examines what was actually done. It is space window dressing on Apollo theater.
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Post by laurel on Jul 6, 2011 20:48:28 GMT -4
Hans Schlegel became temporarily ill during STS-122, I guess that mission was faked too.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 6, 2011 20:54:41 GMT -4
The point as regards to why script an illness in a fake Apollo mission has to due with the perception of authenticity. It simply makes the whole thing more "realistic". Who would fake sick astronauts? And it sort of works until one examines what was actually done. It is space window dressing on Apollo theater. Yeah, if you're an idiot. Because that's what it would take to both ground an astronaut because he had been exposed to German measles (wasn't it?) and then have a different astronaut in the script for that mission get sick. Especially because, if you were looking for drama on that mission, there was already plenty.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 6, 2011 20:55:36 GMT -4
For ethnaton. the evaluation was inadequate, not appropriate. One would not be able to determine cause of illness without an appropriate evaluation.
What did they do as regards the diarrhea in the cabin. Any contingencies addressed for this happening again. My understanding is the Apollo spips were "sterilized" so that we would not bring our bugs to other worlds.
Does such a notion of sterilizing an Apollo CM and LM even make sense?
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Post by scooter on Jul 6, 2011 20:57:17 GMT -4
The point as regards to why script an illness in a fake Apollo mission has to due with the perception of authenticity. It simply makes the whole thing more "realistic". Who would fake sick astronauts? And it sort of works until one examines what was actually done. It is space window dressing on Apollo theater. You don't even KNOW what was "actually done". You're just wrapped around the axle of this "medical" thing which must be bogus (in your mind) because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions. The real world knows and recognizes that Apollo went as stated. Those who argue topics they know little or nothing about are the "doubters". Go start a "doctors for truth" website or something...
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