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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 12:44:23 GMT -4
Ok. I appreciate the feedback. I would propose we close the thread. If others would like to continue, by all means. I believe my question has been answered. Thank you for the responses.
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Post by echnaton on Jul 7, 2011 13:33:04 GMT -4
I have been consistant in my position as regards the astronuats for years. They lied and participated in a fraud, but that does not make them bad people and their actions in my mind were very understandable. I do not see them in a negative light. This quote typified the all his conversations on this board. Fattydash makes an outrageous claim in one breath then takes it back in the next. All the while pretending that it isn't controversial.
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 7, 2011 13:38:24 GMT -4
Perhaps the issue is too charged, as per Luke. I stand edified. The question of alleged Apollo fraud is not charged for me, so please do not avoid my question by implying a relationship between my emotions and Apollo. Again, the same old gish gallop. I simply find it bizarre that on one hand you can call the astronauts liars and frauds, while on the other you say that you do not find them to be be morally defective, evil, bad. That's called having your cake and eating it, and I find it hard to see eye to eye with that stance. What I find offensive is the manner with which you denigrate the achievements of others by throwing around bare assertions like fireworks on the 4th July, and when asked to defend your argument, you are not capable of doing so. The fact that we are talking about Apollo has nothing to do with the argument for me, and that is a point where I have always been consistent. It is the fact that you simply cannot hold your own with the engineers and scientists that made the landings possible, and this is illustrated by me asking you a simple question, and your running away from it. So, I'll ask again: Why was Apollo faked, at least according to you? Why did NASA have to fake it? What was the primary engineering reason?
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Post by photobuster919 on Jul 7, 2011 13:39:09 GMT -4
I know exactly how you feel fattydash.
I am not a HB but I respect people who are and I do believe there should be peace between the two sides on this forum.
People constantly argue here that I am a HB just because I think Jarrah White has the right to post his videos on youtube.
I watch those videos for entertainment value and I'm called a HB?
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 7, 2011 14:00:53 GMT -4
People constantly argue here that I am a HB just because I think Jarrah White has the right to post his videos on youtube. Let's not forget some of the unsavory behaviour of Mr White, which includes: - Accusing another person of being a pedophile based on their use of a song in a video.
- Filing over 50 false copyright claims to silence those who have opposed his views and pointed out the fallacies of his arguments.
- Secretly filming Phil Plait and Adam Savage (illegal in the state Nevada.)
- Doc dropping in several of his videos and making veiled threats to hunt down yours truly.
- Posting private emails without the permission of the originators.
- Slandering and harassing Jay Windley (I would call his actions toward Jay tantamount to hate campaign).
- Making abusive postings at the IMBd and Yahoo forums.
So while JW has the right to post his trash at YouTube and over the Internet, he is not acting within the bounds of the law. So I advise you to actually consider the facts before posting on a thread about people getting on. I've offered olive branches on two occasions to Jarrah, and both times he managed to twist them around and spit back at me. The guy is so tightly wrapped up around a twisted ball of hate and venom, he is not capable of engaging with people at any level of decency. He's a bad example in the context of this thread.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 7, 2011 14:11:42 GMT -4
People constantly argue here that I am a HB just because I think Jarrah White has the right to post his videos on youtube. Leaving aside how much of an oversimplification that is, he doesn't always. If those videos violate their terms of service, he doesn't have the right to post them. They often do. Jarrah thinks "copyright" is something which only belongs to him.
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Post by ka9q on Jul 7, 2011 14:20:40 GMT -4
I also take strong exception to baseless accusations that everyone who participated in the Apollo program was participating in what would be the biggest criminal fraud in human history by far.
I take exception both to his assault on the truth and to his assault on the personal reputations of the highly accomplished people involved. For 'fattydash' to lob his claims of fraud at them while simultaneously claiming that he "doesn't see them as bad people" is just plain insulting.
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Post by photobuster919 on Jul 7, 2011 14:38:15 GMT -4
I will agree with some (but not all) of the below statements. I haven't seen ALL of Jarrah's videos but I will be happy if anyone can link me to the video's I missed. The claims I am not sure about are; - Accusing another person of being a pedophile based on their use of a song in a video.
- Filing over 50 false copyright claims to silence those who have opposed his views and pointed out the fallacies of his arguments.
I have never seen the video where he calls anyone a pedophile. And Jarrah's videos were falsely flagged by youtube users who wanted him banned just because he's a conspiracy theorist. The Apollo 1, Flagging The Gems videos were flagged until Jarrah filed counter-copyright against those who got his videos banned. They are now restored to public view, so while they may be filled with lies they don't contain any abusive comments against us believers. - Secretly filming Phil Plait and Adam Savage (illegal in the state Nevada.)
I have stated before that Jarrah went too far when he stalked Plait and Savage. This is one issue I have with Jarrah. I give people chances and in fairness to Jarrah he did only use a pen camera once. He should be thanking god he didn't get into trouble. - Doc dropping in several of his videos and making veiled threats to hunt down yours truly.
Clarify please. By "yours truly" do you mean Windley? - Posting private emails without the permission of the originators.
He has stated in some videos that he was given permission to quote. At least this was the case with the Brian O' Leary episode. - Slandering and harassing Jay Windley (I would call his actions toward Jay tantamount to hate campaign).
He did have a horrendous obsession with Windley in the past but he seems to have moved on now. In Moon Rocks Revisited he made references to Windley but didn't insult him by any means. - Making abusive postings at the IMBd and Yahoo forums.
I have not seen any of the IMBd or Yahoo forums so I cannot comment further.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 7, 2011 14:53:06 GMT -4
I have been consistant in my position as regards the astronuats for years. They lied and participated in a fraud, but that does not make them bad people and their actions in my mind were very understandable. I do not see them in a negative light. If "living and participating in a fraud" doesn't put someone in a negative light then I see no reason to object to people calling you an "alleged doctor."
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Post by gillianren on Jul 7, 2011 14:56:16 GMT -4
Clarify please. By "yours truly" do you mean Windley? In English, "yours truly" means "the person who is speaking." And you believe him outright?
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 7, 2011 15:30:19 GMT -4
I will agree with some (but not all) of the below statements. I haven't seen ALL of Jarrah's videos but I will be happy if anyone can link me to the video's I missed. The claims I am not sure about are; - Accusing another person of being a pedophile based on their use of a song in a video.
- Filing over 50 false copyright claims to silence those who have opposed his views and pointed out the fallacies of his arguments.
Ask Jarrah if you cannot take my word. Here is his interaction with Jay at Yahoo forums. Way to go, wouldn't you say? tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/apollo-hoax/message/224
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Post by sts60 on Jul 7, 2011 17:00:56 GMT -4
Heh. I had a look at that. At one point, he berates Jay for not having video (just the text) of James Van Allen denouncing the nuttiness of radiation-based "hoax" claims, and equates it to text he read of a talking train engine on a small British isle.
The funny thing is, I've seen video of Thomas the Tank Engine.
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Post by echnaton on Jul 7, 2011 17:04:31 GMT -4
I am not a HB but I respect people who are and I do believe there should be peace between the two sides on this forum. The Farmer and the Cowman Should be Friends
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 7, 2011 17:24:42 GMT -4
Heh. I had a look at that. At one point, he berates Jay for not having video (just the text) of James Van Allen denouncing the nuttiness of radiation-based "hoax" claims, and equates it to text he read of a talking train engine on a small British isle. The funny thing is, I've seen video of Thomas the Tank Engine. Yes, most of his analogies make me laugh. When Jay asked him to correlate H-alpha flare data and solar proton events he ran from the IMDb. Several weeks later he said it was an impossible question to answer, since: 'proton data was not available before 1976; so it was like trying to predict the weather in 2005 using data from after 2005. Based on Windley's logic, hurricane Katrina was not hazardous.' What he failed to understand was that if he did not have the proton data in the first place, how could he make a correlation between H-alpha flares and solar proton events. Afterall, by his own admission, he tells us there is no proton data prior to 1976. Oddly though, he quotes proton data from before 1976, and does so quite liberally. His argument is tied together with bits of string.
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Post by photobuster919 on Jul 7, 2011 18:09:56 GMT -4
I will agree with some (but not all) of the below statements. I haven't seen ALL of Jarrah's videos but I will be happy if anyone can link me to the video's I missed. The claims I am not sure about are; Ask Jarrah if you cannot take my word. Here is his interaction with Jay at Yahoo forums. Way to go, wouldn't you say? tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/apollo-hoax/message/224I am not a fool, that link is completely fabricated. In all his videos I have never heard Jarrah speaking along these lines. I've stated before and I will state it no more. Jarrah previously had a bad obsession with (and hate campaign against) Windley but we've thought him at this stage how badly it affected his credibility. I don't doubt the moon landings, but I still believe that both sides should "get along" as the OP puts it.
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