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Post by Vincent McConnell on Aug 11, 2011 4:47:32 GMT -4
So the biggest claim about JW here, is that he said the astronauts were in "polar orbit". I'm not engineer or astronaut, so can someone tell me if that even exists??
And where can I find the video of him saying this?
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 5:01:18 GMT -4
So the biggest claim about JW here, is that he said the astronauts were in "polar orbit". I'm not engineer or astronaut, so can someone tell me if that even exists?? And where can I find the video of him saying this? Vincent, a word of advice. You're starting several threads about tittle tattle. It's not good form. With regard to Jarrah and his claims, I am weak in that department and admit that is to my own detriment at times. I have a certain amount of frustration as far as he is concerned. Others here are more resilient than I, and don't find him interesting. I've given you an account elsewhere that explains why people tend not to discuss him. Please read the account very carefully, and try to understand what I perceive and how this perception relates to this forum. Try to understand the difference between skepticism and conspiracism. If you have doubts about Apollo still, then ask questions. We all have to ask questions at some point in our lives. If you believe Apollo, then leave Jarrah behind. Forget him. He's bad news, and there is ample evidence to show his venom and hatred towards those that do not agree with him. Vincent, this is my advice. You can take it or leave it. Take a little time out. At the moment you need to slow down a little. Go away and ask what person you are, and the person you want to be. Then ask yourself what friends and role models you wish to have in life. Once you have reached that answer, go ahead and plan your future. I believe you hope to join the USMC? Then do it. I've seen others here appeal to put an end to the Jarrah debate. I'm one on the worst, but LunarOrbit, please put an end to it. I'd be happy to see some of the threads closed.
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Post by photobuster919 on Aug 11, 2011 5:20:14 GMT -4
So the biggest claim about JW here, is that he said the astronauts were in "polar orbit". I'm not engineer or astronaut, so can someone tell me if that even exists?? And where can I find the video of him saying this? Seriously whats the story with all these new threads about Jarrah? Hasn't he been talked about enough yet? I'm not sure whether there is such a thing as "polar orbit".
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Post by capricorn1 on Aug 11, 2011 6:32:15 GMT -4
So the biggest claim about JW here, is that he said the astronauts were in "polar orbit". I'm not engineer or astronaut, so can someone tell me if that even exists?? And where can I find the video of him saying this? Jarrah contended that a craft could orbit the polar ice cap and be out of sight of the World's astronomers and radio telescopes. A normal polar orbit goes around a planet with a view to covering the whole globe as it spins. Jarrah's orbit would require some extremely odd path requiring an enormous fuel load and impossible continual firing of the rocket. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJuuraAMAUsHe claims he did this deliberately to confirm some weird idea about Apollo not being able to achieve TLI at the correct latitude to skip around the outer VAB. He was caught out and covered his tracks with some daft story that makes no sense. I think he took down the original video where he said this, as it is pretty obvious he is being serious.
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Post by Obviousman on Aug 11, 2011 6:44:39 GMT -4
Yes, there is such a thing a polar orbit. Instead of going around the Earth roughly around the Equator, the orbit is shifted to go from pole to pole. The advantage of this orbit is that it passes over all of the Earth, where equatorial orbits do not. That is why they are favoured for things like mapping satellites. The disadvantage to them is that they take a lot more fuel to get into, since you are not utilising the rotation of the Earth.
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Post by Obviousman on Aug 11, 2011 6:49:08 GMT -4
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Post by chrlz on Aug 11, 2011 7:08:06 GMT -4
What Luke Said.
Read twice, then repeat if desire to start new threads persists...
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Post by gwiz on Aug 11, 2011 7:08:52 GMT -4
So the biggest claim about JW here, is that he said the astronauts were in "polar orbit" Not "biggest claim", but "biggest laugh". A polar orbit, like any other orbit, lies in a plane that goes through the centre of the Earth. What makes it polar is having that plane inclined at a large angle, close to a right angle, to the plane of the equator. The higher the orbital inclination, the more of the Earth a satellite's ground track passes over, so polar orbits are useful for Earth survey satellites. JW's polar orbit had a plane that didn't intersect the Earth at all, let alone the centre. It's ground track followed the Arctic Circle. There was more daftness about an infeasibly high orbital velocity, as well. He posted it, with a carefully drawn diagram, on the old Loose Change forum.
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Post by redneckr0nin on Aug 11, 2011 7:11:38 GMT -4
Polar orbit is where the Apollo missions hid behind the northern lights for many days only to return to earth valiant heros......ohhh NASA and their crazy tricks!
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Aug 11, 2011 10:14:24 GMT -4
Yes, there is such a thing a polar orbit. Instead of going around the Earth roughly around the Equator, the orbit is shifted to go from pole to pole. The advantage of this orbit is that it passes over all of the Earth, where equatorial orbits do not. That is why they are favoured for things like mapping satellites. The disadvantage to them is that they take a lot more fuel to get into, since you are not utilising the rotation of the Earth. I'd like to add that polar orbits (high inclination) require that the launch vehicle travel in a northward or southward direction from the launch pad. Equatorial orbits (low inclination) launch in a generally eastward direction, though it may vary from approximately northeast to southeast depending on the exact requirements. Launch sites typically have restrictions on the azimuths that a launch vehicle can fly in order to avoid traveling over populated areas. This is for safety in the event of a launch mishap. Missile ranges are generally over ocean or barren unpopulated areas. The United States has two primary launch sites, one at Cape Canaveral in Florida and the other at Vandenberg Air Force Base (VAFB) in California. Rockets flying out of Cape Canaveral are prohibited from flying north or south, thus polar orbits are impossible from that launch site. Cape Canaveral is the US's low inclination orbital launch site. VAFB can launch rockets due south, thus it operates as the US's high inclination orbital launch site. Although eastward launches are prohibited from VAFB, theoretically a low inclination orbit could be achieved by launching westward, but this is highly inefficient because it is traveling in a direction opposite the Earth's rotation. edit spelling
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Post by capricorn1 on Aug 11, 2011 14:11:21 GMT -4
That is a truly awful insulting post by him.....most unsavoury.
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Post by scooter on Aug 11, 2011 19:00:41 GMT -4
In that old Loose Change forum, as I recollect, Jarrah was working on ways to hide the CSM from surface observers. One was the "polar orbit"...I recollect putting a question here and getting an answer that any orbit has to have a plane with the planet's mass at the center of the plane (or something to that effect). He also suggested a 25,000mph orbit to minimize exposure. We explained that this was indeed what was done, and it resulted in the apogee of the orbit being raised to the lunar distance...with some help from the Moon itself (and all that 3 body stuff).
He is well known for changing his stories to cover his mistakes. Our posts weren't angry or mean, just correcting mistakes. He really, really doesn't like it when people do that.
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Post by BertL on Aug 11, 2011 20:10:46 GMT -4
He brought up the "polar orbit" thing in the discussion on Brickfilms.com as well, where he was quickly debunked. I can't recall how he reacted to that. (The thread in question is in a forum not visible to the public, sorry.)
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 20:43:03 GMT -4
Interesting post Bob, thanks. The LRO is in a polar orbit around the moon isn't it? How would such a probe inserted into an orbit? I cannot imagine that it would have followed the same trans-lunar route that Apollo did, since the delta-V on insertion around the moon would have been interesting. Practical orbital mechanics is not my forte I'm afraid.
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Post by ka9q on Aug 11, 2011 21:00:43 GMT -4
Yes, LRO's voyage to the moon looked much like Apollo's. The main difference is the exact approach relative to the moon. Apollo targeted a point in space ahead of where the moon would be so that the moon pulled it into a nearly retrograde orbit.
For Apollos 8, 10, 11 and 12 the S-IVB was slowed slightly (by venting excess propellants and firing its attitude control engines) so that it followed Apollo on much the same path, but got to the moon after the moon had already crossed its path. This flung it around the eastern limb of the moon, and since the moon's gravity acted in the same direction as its orbital motion, the effect was to slingshot the S-IVB out of the earth-moon system entirely into an orbit around the sun.
Starting with Apollo 13, the S-IVB was slowed a little less so that the moon was right in its path when it got there -- resulting in an impact.
To target a polar orbit you simply nudge the spacecraft at right angles to the orbital plane so that it flies over the lunar north or south pole. Then you do a lunar orbit insertion on the back side just like Apollo, and you're in a polar lunar orbit.
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