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Post by twik on Nov 29, 2011 0:25:19 GMT -4
chew i have multiple degrees in science i know how it works Really? Please, let us know what they are. Even though you've already admitted that they are "not pertinent" to the discussion. Since I'm asking, I'll go first. I have a B.Sc. and M.Sc. Not in physics, which is a handicap at times in this discussion, but in chemistry. I do know that saying "there is no vacuum in space" must be your attempt at humor, since no one with even grade school science would believe something so absurd.
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Post by trebor on Nov 29, 2011 0:36:09 GMT -4
trebor the reason gas expands to fill the available space, is because you are presenting a closed system. I would say the environment of outer space is the ideal example of an open system, we can agree to disagree on how rapidly the stream spreads out. You have stated nothing about how rapidly the stream would spread out. FACT: It did not dissipate enough in 100 feet so as not to affect the lunar dust. No. ASSUMPTION: the force at 3 feet is going to be magnitudes greater than 100 feet. Of course. Now why don;t you show some actual evidence why the 'blast crater' produced should have been larger than it was. As you have 'multiple degrees in science', that should not be hard for you.
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Post by twik on Nov 29, 2011 0:37:18 GMT -4
What on earth does a closed system have to do with it?
And no, let's not agree to disagree. You are choosing to keep faith in your own "facts", despite their being different from the facts that everyone else has.
Please justify your ASSUMPTION about the force at 3 feet versus 100 feet. Since you have several science degrees, I'm sure you can give us the calculations. And show evidence of your FACT, since all available evidence the rest of the world has shows that this fact does not exist.
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Nov 29, 2011 0:38:02 GMT -4
raven artist drawing as realistic? OK i will concede the crater if you concede the lm ascent engine should have had a flame. That's another question again and is related. If there should have been a visible plume as seen in artist conceptions, why not make such an effect? Anyway, there is no reason there should have been a plume. The Delta II second stage has the exact same fuel and oxidiser, and in fact in early models used surplus LM descent engines, and also lacks a visible plume in a vacuum. You can see no plume past the initial 'belch' of ignition, similar to that seen on Apollo ascent video yet the engine bell can be seen glowing redhot and hotter in the shade side, proving it is running. Science isn't a matter of give and take, it is about facts.
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Post by laurel on Nov 29, 2011 0:39:11 GMT -4
my degrees do not matter here they are not space degrees. Then why did you bring them up, and why do you think you know more than people whose degrees are relevant to space exploration?
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Post by twik on Nov 29, 2011 0:42:04 GMT -4
twik trying to make a point about space and that it does not suck it is just space my degrees do not matter here they are not space degrees. i have thought about going back for physics degree Why do you believe a vacuum must suck? Have you never encountered the word when not connected to a device for cleaning rugs? Do you understand how that machine uses a "vacuum" to move air in a particular direction?
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Post by trebor on Nov 29, 2011 0:42:38 GMT -4
twik trying to make a point about space and that it does not suck Who has claimed it does? What I pointed out was that the exhaust gasses would spread out rapidly in a low pressure environment. Do you doubt this? my degrees do not matter here they are not space degrees. Why bring them up? ti have thought about going back for physics degree I suggest you don't bother.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 29, 2011 0:44:55 GMT -4
if you consult Aldrin's book he talks about a huge orange plume from the descent engine what is he talking about? Which book? What page? I expect an answer, Playdor.
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Post by trebor on Nov 29, 2011 0:45:32 GMT -4
trebor i think the question really is if the dust is affected at 100 feet how can you prove that a rocket engine 3 feet away does not have a huge affect? This is not an answer to the question. Why should the engine have produced a larger 'crater' than it did? All you have is some pictures of a moon landing hoax without craters. This is false. (as has been pointed out), the pictures show a broad and shallow crater, with fluid erosion marks produced by the exhaust gasses. Did you have trouble reading the previous posts?
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Post by laurel on Nov 29, 2011 0:46:36 GMT -4
if you consult Aldrin's book he talks about a huge orange plume from the descent engine what is he talking about? Which book? What page? I expect an answer, Playdor. Ditto. You just keep insisting that Aldrin said this and ignore requests to provide the actual quote, book, and page. Did you actually read this statement from Aldrin yourself or are you just repeating a claim from a hoax site?
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Post by trebor on Nov 29, 2011 0:48:10 GMT -4
trebor why do you want to be so abusive Why are you unable to answer the questions? And why do you seem to have such trouble reading the past posts?
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Nov 29, 2011 0:50:11 GMT -4
trebor why do you want to be so abusive If I may hazard a guess, it is because they are only human and trebor is only doing what a human normally would do given the circumstances. They are losing their patience.
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Post by laurel on Nov 29, 2011 0:53:08 GMT -4
Asking someone to answer a question is hardly abusive.
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Post by twik on Nov 29, 2011 0:57:02 GMT -4
Insisting that you answer questions on a discussion board is not abusive. You are the one who brought these points up - why do you not want to discuss them further?
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Post by laurel on Nov 29, 2011 0:58:29 GMT -4
From Google Books, page 14 of Magnificent Desolation. "Neil threw the switch to ignite the powered descent burn. Oddly, we could barely hear it or feel any sensation when a hot orange plume poured out of the engine and into the black space below us."
You're welcome, Playdor. I don't know why a Google Books search would have been so hard for you, though.
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