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God
Oct 1, 2005 8:20:56 GMT -4
Post by skinbath on Oct 1, 2005 8:20:56 GMT -4
I would be interested to know who believes in (a) God and who doesn't. To show good faith, I will put my cards on the table straight away and declare that I am and always have been an atheist. I suppose I am trying to discover who does, and who does not, have blind faith in the unproven. Well this is an awfully big question to try to sum up in a few words or paragraphs.....an answer given today may differ from that given tomorrow..... I like and can relate with a lot of what`s been posted here and would say that I`m pretty much an atheist but...doesn`t belief change and evolve over time and according to experiences? God,as portrayed in western culture,seems to be a mix `n` match affair these days with people selecting the parts they like and dismissing the parts they don`t like.....doesn`t seem to be the kind of thing I think leads to a higher domain..... I do though have personal experience which leads me to feel that a higher power exists but then again this could equate to words from any of the religious books....i.e. have faith and you will be provided for...but isn`t this fatalism? I`ve not read much of the bible but have read Ecclesiastes... fabulous... I try to live by the rule.....do the right thing..... edited to add.....I gave up long ago the need in trying to understand the secrets of the universe.....I much prefer to enjoy what I have as my portion is not the same as your portion.....
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God
Oct 2, 2005 2:55:37 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Oct 2, 2005 2:55:37 GMT -4
Childhood believer in God; late teens to 26 atheist; born again at 28. Picked up a Bible one night when I had nothing else to do and started reading. Which Bible?But he made us and gave us free choice, right? Yet if we do not do as he wishes, he will send us here. Don't jump on me just yet, but I need to say this. Catholocism is not Christianity. It's a pagan religion masquerading as Christianity. I only mention it so we don't have to do the crusades and inquisition thingy. They're two very different belief systems once you get past the names. [SNIP!] Doesn't Catholicism fit the definition of Christianity? Aren't you and Catholics using the same Gospels? By the way, I was brought up as a Roman Catholic, but tend towards atheism. I think it was called "The Bible as Literature" Not exactly. We're destined for hell from the get-go due to Adam & Eve's disobedience, but God provided a way of escape. If you refuse to take the escape route, well....don't blame God. What more could He possibly do for you? Catholocism fits the description of Christianity you posted. It does not, however, meet the criteria of "saving faith" as described in the New Testament. Yes, we read the same gospels. Catholcism either ignores, flagrantly disobeys or reinterprets key teachings in scripture. The end result is totally different. I was baptized into the Catholic Church after my conversion because I just didn't know any better. The Jesuits weren't too fond of having their doctrine corrected. They threatened me with excommunication and at that point my eyes were finally totally opened. As a former Catholic you must know just what excommunication involves. I lasted less than a year. As IF they had the power to take my salvation away.
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God
Oct 2, 2005 3:18:03 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Oct 2, 2005 3:18:03 GMT -4
Hasn't anyone noticed that however much we learn or advance in science it never makes any difference in man's behavior? Why would scientific advancement change man's behavior? Unless science starts to alter humans on a genetic level, I see no reason why basic human behavior should change much. We're the same animal regardless of how much we learn. I've read very little of the Bible, probably not more than 5%. I admit that I had never read what God had to say during all the time I claimed He didn't exist. This of course assumes the Bible is the word of God, which is very debatable to say the least. You're right. It wouldn't change man's behavior, but many people think that because of our scientific and educational advancements God is no longer relevant. They don't even take into account the sin factor. I didn't know if the Bible was the Word of God at first. There are at least 2 ways that I know of to find out. Serious open-minded study which could take years and/or putting God to the test, which is what I did. He promises to take up residence in those who ask, and to forgive their sins. I had read enough of what He had to say to want this very much. I asked. He responded according to His Word.
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God
Oct 2, 2005 4:35:06 GMT -4
Post by Data Cable on Oct 2, 2005 4:35:06 GMT -4
I'm with Bob, pete and LO on the atheistic side of agnosticism.
I find it the height of mortal arrogance to simultaneously believe in the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient being, and that any mortal is even capable of defying the will of said being. Once such a deity is invoked, then everything which occurs becomes His/Her/Its will, because He/She/It either caused the event to happen, or didn't prevent it from happening.
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God
Oct 2, 2005 5:09:00 GMT -4
Post by Data Cable on Oct 2, 2005 5:09:00 GMT -4
We're destined for hell from the get-go due to Adam & Eve's disobedience Disobedience which He gave them the ability to commit, with the foreknowledge that they would do so. Therefore, He set us up. If the product was so obviously flawed at the prototype stage, any competent manufacturer would have gone back to the drawing board, rather than moving on to mass-production. I will blame God, because He stacked the deck. How about not stacking the deck against me? How about not judging me by the actions of a couple of kids who died 6,000 years ago? How about telling me what his rules are directly and in no uncertain terms, rather than passing them down third-hand through several thousand other mortals who might futz with the language? To name a few...
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God
Oct 2, 2005 8:27:12 GMT -4
Post by drjohn on Oct 2, 2005 8:27:12 GMT -4
I would be interested to know who believes in (a) God and who doesn't. I believe
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golfhobo
Venus
DAMN! That woulda gone in the hole IF....
Posts: 86
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God
Oct 2, 2005 11:31:40 GMT -4
Post by golfhobo on Oct 2, 2005 11:31:40 GMT -4
I would be interested to know who believes in (a) God and who doesn't.
To show good faith, I will put my cards on the table straight away and declare that I am and always have been an atheist.
I suppose I am trying to discover who does, and who does not, have blind faith in the unproven.
Hmm... some would say that if you put (a) before it, you should use small g for god, and that somewhat changes the question. Capitalizing God, indicates just the ONE God.
You indicate that believeing in God shows "blind faith in the unproven," and you seem reticent to do so. Yet, you, and all other CT's, put blind faith in theories of how something that the rest of us consider "proven" just MIGHT have happened.
Most scientists believe they can PROVE the moon landings, etc., and think that believers in a deity are grasping at straws to explain things unknown. You, on the other hand, don't believe in God because it is unproven, yet question science.
Hmmm...... interesting.
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God
Oct 2, 2005 11:41:12 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Oct 2, 2005 11:41:12 GMT -4
What I don't get is why god gives innocent children cancer while letting Nazi war criminals live into their 90's. It's all part of his mysterious plan, I guess.
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golfhobo
Venus
DAMN! That woulda gone in the hole IF....
Posts: 86
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God
Oct 2, 2005 11:50:14 GMT -4
Post by golfhobo on Oct 2, 2005 11:50:14 GMT -4
... That is my beef with Intelligent Design; that if one wishes to ask if life could evolve on Mars, ID gives no method of answering the question. Personally, I lean towards a Shinto form of animism... Isn't believing in a spiritual force that gives everything a soul a certain belief in Intelligent Design? Doesn't the fact that Mars is currently (and throughout Man's existence has been) uninhabitable indicate that by Intelligent Design, it was placed too far away from the lifegiving Sun and hasn't enough atmosphere? IF I was God, or the force responsible for I.D., I would say, "look guys... if I WANTED life on Mars, I would have PUT it there. If I wanted MAN to live on another planet, I would have DESIGNED it better, or PUT you there."
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golfhobo
Venus
DAMN! That woulda gone in the hole IF....
Posts: 86
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God
Oct 2, 2005 11:56:53 GMT -4
Post by golfhobo on Oct 2, 2005 11:56:53 GMT -4
What I don't get is why god gives innocent children cancer while letting Nazi war criminals live into their 90's. It's all part of his mysterious plan, I guess. Some would say that God anticipated you "not getting that." So he sent his Son to suffer inequities and an undeserved death. To TEACH us that reward is only worth its salt if earned through 'suffering.' If everything on Earth was just 'hunky-dory' then we'd have no reason to want to change it. And no reason to want a better afterlife.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 2, 2005 14:18:19 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 2, 2005 14:18:19 GMT -4
We're destined for hell from the get-go due to Adam & Eve's disobedience, but God provided a way of escape. If you refuse to take the escape route, well....don't blame God. What more could He possibly do for you? Grow up and get over the Adam & Eve thing?
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God
Oct 2, 2005 14:28:44 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Oct 2, 2005 14:28:44 GMT -4
He sure holds a grudge, doesn't He?
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 2, 2005 14:36:01 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 2, 2005 14:36:01 GMT -4
Indeed: there are times when atheism is such a comfort... ;D
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God
Oct 2, 2005 23:20:43 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Oct 2, 2005 23:20:43 GMT -4
IF I was God, or the force responsible for I.D., I would say, "look guys... if I WANTED life on Mars, I would have PUT it there. If I wanted MAN to live on another planet, I would have DESIGNED it better, or PUT you there." I read a funny quote today and it reminded me of what you said above... "If God had meant us to explore space, he would've given us a Moon." -- Krafft Ehricke Oh wait... he did! One of Bart Sibrel's claims is that God doesn't want us to visit the Moon, that's why there is a radiation belt (and over 200,000 miles) between us and the Moon. But I believe that if there is a God he put the Moon there to inspire us to explore and to challenge us to get there. He WANTS us to evolve but isn't going to make it easy. He didn't put the Moon there just to tease us with something that is impossible to reach... unless you believe in a cruel god.
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golfhobo
Venus
DAMN! That woulda gone in the hole IF....
Posts: 86
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God
Oct 2, 2005 23:39:23 GMT -4
Post by golfhobo on Oct 2, 2005 23:39:23 GMT -4
Interesting. I always thought he put it there because the Earth was very BIG and very DARK at night, and he was out of 275 million watt bulbs!
But, YOU are probably right.
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