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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 13, 2005 21:36:52 GMT -4
Okay I need some quick help. For an Light Enigneering project I'm going to be building a aluminium water powered rocket. The current plan is to use about 500mm of 75mm diameter aluminium piping with a moulded nose cone and shaped fins. I'll have to work out a launching system too, currently I'm thinking about a clamp type device with a plug that that would fit into the mouth of the motor to so that it would hold the rocket and seal the motor to allow for pumping up the air pressure, though that is only an idea. Anyways, if anyone's done this, or know an excellent site with plans of this sort of type, can you let me know. Unfortunately we only found out today and I have to have a design by tomorrow my time so I only have about 11 hours or so to come up with it all.
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Post by Tanalia on Nov 15, 2005 22:05:49 GMT -4
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Post by Moon Man on Nov 20, 2005 4:41:55 GMT -4
Wolf, you should talk to scooter, Dave, on here. It said it was into rockets and it might not have seen this thread.
I built a neat rocket with a friend. It's a cannon more than a rocket, really. We took 5 or 6 empty pop cans and put a small hole in the bottom of each can. We taped the cans together. we cut the top of the top can off. You pour some lighter fluid in the bottom can and then shake the cannon up for a few seconds. We then put a tennis ball in the top can that we had cut open and light the the bottom can where the lighter fluid was inserted and BOOM, the tennis ball shoots out like a rocket.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 20, 2005 5:21:40 GMT -4
I built a neat rocket with a friend. It's a cannon more than a rocket, really. We took 5 or 6 empty pop cans and put a small hole in the bottom of each can. We taped the cans together. we cut the top of the top can off. You pour some lighter fluid in the bottom can and then shake the cannon up for a few seconds. We then put a tennis ball in the can they we cut open and light the the bottom can where the lighter fluid was inserted and BOOM, the tennis ball shoots out like a rocket. I think perhaps this clearly shows one of your problems with rocketry. Your were correct when you said it was a cannon, it's not a rocket, nor would the ball shoot out like a rocket, but more like an artillery shell. See here what you have is an explosion that then propels the ball like a bullet, it's a one off thrust and then only gravity and air resistance matters, slowing the ball all the time. Rockets don't work that way. Thgey work by throwing material out the back. They carry an amount of fuel and by throwing it out the back at high speed the rocket must travel forwards a proportional amount. This is called the Law of Conservation of Momentum. It states that in a system in which no outside force acts, the centre of mass must remain travelling with the same momentum regardless of how the individual components of the system react. In the case of the rocket the components are the rocket and the fuel. If you toss the fuel out the back at speed, then the rocket has to travel in the other direction with an equal increase in momentum so that the centre of mass remains with the same momentum. This means that the rocket keeps accelerating as it flies, until it runs out of fuel. Only then does gravity and airesistance become the only factors in the rest of the flight. If we take the rocket I am building for an example, it will use water as the fuel. Rather than with a combustible fuel which creates the thrust to throw the fuel out the back by burning it and turning it into a gas, the water rocket uses highly compressed air to forces the water out the back of the rocket. As the water flies out the back and the rocket flies forwards with an equal momentum (remember the saying every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction?) which will hopefully be enough to make it fly.
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Post by margamatix on Nov 20, 2005 5:47:57 GMT -4
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Post by Moon Man on Nov 20, 2005 5:50:00 GMT -4
Coolio, Wolf. Good luck with it. I was just reading your hoax page in the other section on here. I have two thoughts on Nixon. He knew it was a hoax because he directed it, or, Johnson was the scammer and Nixon was hoaxed like the rest of us and when he finally found out he put a stop to it by canceling the remaining missions.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 20, 2005 6:03:52 GMT -4
Coolio, Wolf. Good luck with it. I was just reading your hoax page in the other section on here. I have two thoughts on Nixon. He knew it was a hoax because he directed it, or, Johnson was the scammer and Nixon was hoaxed like the rest of us and when he finally found out he put a stop to it by canceling the remaining missions. The problem with that is that Apollo was designed and planned well before either of them. Apollo really began prior to NASA's existance with guy's like von Bruan thinking of ways to do it and NASA's predessesor, the NACA. As such most of the leg work was done prior to NASA's creation in 1958. The plans for Apollo where in place even before Kennedy, back in early 1960. For it to have really been a hoax, it would have had to spanned four administrations, two Democratic and two Republican. Also you have to realise that while NASA was the ones that did the organisation, it was the private Aerospace companies and their engineers who did the planning and building. NASA just told them what they wanted to do the job, it was the private companies who did all the work. They were either in on it, or they provided NASA with ships that really could have gone, and if the second, why would they not have used them for real?
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Post by Moon Man on Nov 20, 2005 6:44:47 GMT -4
The USA wanted rockets to launch WMD to Russia, not to go to space. They had over 1 million man hours in this before JFK's speech, and that was in 61. There was no space race and if there was Russia already won it. Simply believing the Russia never went to the moon because the USA did it first makes no sense. They didn't go because it's not doable. As you said, companies were hired to build all the compentants. Those companies, and the employees thereof, didn't know if going to the moon was doable, they just built the compentants to the specs they were given. They watched Apollo just like everyone else and believe it was real, and you'll never convince them otherwise. And who knows if every company was private, they may've been, but I'd bet some were not, or they had contracts with the US military. Take the Stealth bomber, for example. Built in the late 80's, not the 60's, and no one knew it existsed until maybe the Gulf war in 91. Which company built that plane and why was it a secret..? Who would imagine that in the 80's Reagan would be promoting a Just Say No To Drugs slogan while trading drugs for arms..? Who would image in the 90's Clinton would lie on national TV..? Would would imagine in the 00's Bush would lie about Iraq's WMD and their connection to 911..? Lying is nothing new to the USA or Canadian government. Canadian tax payers were scammed by our government officials for over 100 million $ and the guilty pricks who forced documents and submitted bogus expense claims are all going to walk scott free while we pay another 100 million $ in investigation costs while they continue to lie about it. The scam took place from 95-99 and we just found out. What te engineers developed didn't go to waste as they use most of it in the shuttle, but I think it's pretty plain to see that themoon landing never really happened. The camera to pan and tilt on Apollo 17, that we're debating in one thread, never existed in 72. Look how small it was and it was radio controlled. And remember, it's a TV camera and not a video camera. It's not believable.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 20, 2005 7:59:03 GMT -4
The USA wanted rockets to launch WMD to Russia, not to go to space.
Well it depends which part of the USA military you mean. The air force wanted to build bombers, they were far more effective and could deliver huge amounts of explosives compared to a rocket. Hence they were more interested in developing the bomber commands of SAC. The Army and Navy were more interested in rockets as nuclear and conventional delivery system, but even parts of their teams were looking at space and reseach, not just Von Bruan's team.
They had over 1 million man hours in this before JFK's speech, and that was in 61
The space program started long before Kennedy. NACA, which was merged into the organisation that would become NASA, did all the work for Mercury before 1958 and were doing study on where to head next. The result of that study was Apollo. The team who become the ABMA was ready to launch a satellite in 1955, so the belief that the US wasn't looking towards space before 1961 is just totally wrong.
There was no space race and if there was Russia already won it. Simply believing the Russia never went to the moon because the USA did it first makes no sense. They didn't go because it's not doable.
This shows that you know even less about the Soviet space program than you do about the US one. This isn't really your fault, few people do because most of the information has only been available since the early 1990's. The Soviet's had a full Lunar space program, including operational and fully tested space tested Moon Landers. They tested the LK three times before the program was cancelled in 1974. The program ws cancelled because of the failure of their primary lifter, the N-1, not because the US beat them. There were 4 tests of the N-1, 3 of them previous to Apollo 11, and all were failures.
The Soviets nuclear weapons were a lot bulkier than that the US's. This meant that they had to have bigger rockets to lift their warheads. What it meant was that early on, the Soviet rockets could get men into orbit whereas the US rockets weren't able to until they got the Atlas finished. The Soviet and the American way of increasing their rocket size differed. As they needed bigger rockets the US built a bigger engine. This meant that the Saturn V had just five F1 engines, each one incredibly powerful. The Soviets never manged to build a big engine so instead they went with lots of smaller engines. The N-1 rocket had -30- engines!! With so many engines, things went wrong and the project failed. Without the N-1 they couldn't launch the LOK and LK together and so finally in 1974 the project was cancelled so as to concentrate on space stations.
As you said, companies were hired to build all the compentants. Those companies, and the employees thereof, didn't know if going to the moon was doable, they just built the compentants to the specs they were given. They watched Apollo just like everyone else and believe it was real, and you'll never convince them otherwise. And who knows if every company was private, they may've been, but I'd bet some were not, or they had contracts with the US military.
Again you make incorrect assumptions. NASA gave about 15 companies basic needs for the ships. This included things like that they had to be a "shirt sleeves" enviroment. The companies then all designed a ship capable of meeting NASA's needs. They were the ones that did the planning for it, not NASA. NASA then choose one of those designs and asked them all to work out the details and come back with the specs for it. Again it was the companies that developed the specs for the ship. At no point did NASA tell the companies who built the hardware how to do it, they asked them for something that did a job and left it to the companies' designers and engineers to do just that
Take the Stealth bomber, for example. Built in the late 80's, not the 60's, and no one knew it existsed until maybe the Gulf war in 91. Which company built that plane and why was it a secret..?
First I'm going to assume you mean the B2 bomber and not the F-117A. Interesting story this. The B2 Bomber was actually revealed publically for the first time on Nov 22, 1988. The prime contractor was Northrop Grumman Corporation and the really interesting thing? Martell released a model of the B2 in 1987, over a year prior to the offical release of the plane to the public. At the time there was a big stink because the plane was supposed to be secret and yet Martell had learned of the dimensions and look of the plane allowing them to model it.
If you did mean the Nighthawk stealthfighter, F-117A, well that doesn't help your case either because it was first operational in 1983 and was built by Lockheed.
The camera to pan and tilt on Apollo 17, that we're debating in one thread, never existed in 72. Look how small it was and it was radio controlled. And remember, it's a TV camera and not a video camera. It's not believable.
You keep using that word, I do not think you know what it means.
You have had it explained to you why and how the camera was able to be made smaller than normal handheld colour cameras. It just shows that you don't bother listening. In fact I know I explained about the Soviet moon program to you on the BAUT, I even posted pictures of the LK and N-1. I honestly don't know why I bother because instead of trying to learn, all you do is put your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala. I don't believe it." The major shame of it is that it's you that ends up suffering. Most of us guys on here love talking about this stuff, it's a passion. People will tell you that I'm often quiet, but mention science or Apollo and my eyes light up and they can't shut me up. I love to learn this stuff, when Bob or Jay point out something I didn't now I go "wow, that's amazing." It makes me a better person to learn and whenever I see how people hve done things in the past it inspires me and amazes me, it also gives me ideas and makes me want to know more. You look at all the information you are shown and instead of taking it in, you close your mind too it. That has to be a very sad way to live.You don't suffer from ignorance, that is easily overcome by just learning. You refuse to learn though, probably because it will hurt your world view. That is willfull ignorance, and that is one of the few things I find unforgivable. I pulled out of the threads on the BAUT board because you weren't learning anything. I did think you might be starting to here, but all I see is your repeating arguments that have been shown wrong. As such I honestly don't see any point in carrying on trying to teach you.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Nov 20, 2005 11:44:29 GMT -4
Moon Man, will you PLEASE stop highjacking threads to talk about your hoax theory. You have done this at least twice now and LunarOrbit has already warned you about it. This thread is about PhantomWolf's water rocket, not the Apollohoax.
Edit: removed mild insult
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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 20, 2005 11:59:20 GMT -4
Thank you, Bob.
Moon Man, I can't be here 24 hours a day to make sure you're following the rules. So here's the deal: follow the rules or I will ban you. This is your final warning.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 21, 2005 1:48:03 GMT -4
I think that's a litle hard LO, after all I did help in the threadjacking of my own thread and if anyone should have complained it should have been me. Besides, I've seen others (and I'm guilty too) do it without quite such a proclaimation.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 21, 2005 3:14:37 GMT -4
I don't mind if threads go off topic a bit, I do it too from time to time, but he's not just going off topic he's dragging the moon hoax into a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with Apollo. There are plenty of threads already about the moon hoax that he can take part in, he doesn't need to turn unrelated threads into hoax threads.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 21, 2005 6:32:53 GMT -4
fair enough
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Post by PhantomWolf on Dec 12, 2005 21:50:42 GMT -4
Right, well it's all done and fired, lol Here some images of the rocket. The first 3 were taken during leak testing prior to a pressure test. The fourth one is taken just before the final lauches. Picture 1Picture 2Picture 3Picture 4And this is a quicktime movie of the launch and the flight. I was pretty impressed when I finally got to see this footage on the computer as I managed to track the rocket pretty well. Neither of the two people with the rocket are me. The one holding the rocket is one of our tutors and the one doing the air is a classmate. A Warning: There is a bit of bad language right at the end. Sorry can't control the classmates. Quicktime Movie of Launch
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