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Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 27, 2005 20:29:54 GMT -4
I will just say that the administrator of this forum is fairer than the administration of BAUT, although you must bear in mind that the description of this site (of which this forum is the only active part) is "Welcome to ApolloHoax.net, a website devoted to countering claims that the Apollo moon landings were faked". To my mind, this should read "Welcome to ApolloHoax.net, a website devoted to discussing claims that the Apollo moon landings were faked". Just one word, but a world of difference in the implication of impartiality. Stick with it, time will prove us right. Nope, I think the current board description is worded exactly the way I intended. Who says we have to be impartial? I try to be fair to moon hoax believers, and I do encourage them to make any claims they want... but I expect them to either defend those claims with proof, or concede when they can't. I am an Apollo supporter and I'm not going to hide that fact just to appear unbiased.
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lonewulf
Earth
Humanistic Cyborg
Posts: 244
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Post by lonewulf on Nov 28, 2005 3:54:32 GMT -4
Okay, I'm tired of all of this talk about how evil the BAUT forums are. Quoting Piper: Well I'm new here as well and this is my first post. I never posted much at BAUT because I didn't like the "gatekeeping" that went on there. Right. Far be it for a family-friendly forum that specically lays out certain rules for effect of proper debate to actually *ENFORCE* those rules. I mean, wow, the arrogance! No one should be banned for being called a "dickless ****-something", no sirree! These are supposed to be discussion boards, so when I see that the moderators are the ones brutally debasing every new idea that comes along, You mean, offering a counter-argument that revolves around proven fact and scientific evidence? not to mention editing posts, You mean the posts that involve cursing, Ad Hominem attacks, and various other issues? The forums headed by the Bad Astronomer and Universe Today actually have simple rules; no Ad Hominems, no personal attacks, no cursing. It's supposed to be a family-friendly forums, made for one purpose: Purposeful debate, free from people just saying, "YOU **** *** SON OF A MOTHER*******, I'LL KILL YOU, YOU **** ****" How is that beneficial conversation? It just leads to flame wars. That's the purpose of the rules, and I don't see why so many people have such a problem with it. Hell, I feel like trying to prove the moon landings didn't happen, just to show how someone trying to go about debate should do it. locking threads for no reason "No reason". If you want to post in BAUT, then it's simple. READ THE RULES! I mean, heaven forbid they enforce their own RULES! Jesus. and banning good posters, Yes, glorious people like the unrepentant Moonman, the insulting Jason ("You dickless ****-something", "You moron", etc.). I can't help but see it as a board that doesn't allow free discussion and even seems intent on preventing it. Why should it promote "Free all-or-nothing" discussion? I certainly don't want to go into a board that allows people to flame each other; no reasonable debating could possibly come of it. I don't want to go into a forum that involves advertisement and spamming (some of the rules involved), especially involving pornography. I really don't understand the objections. I welcome open debate and discussion on any topic. Well, that's good. Expect me to curse at you and insult you for holding onto your beliefs. Oh, wait, you don't like that? I wonder why. Hmm, I wonder what forum you could go to where you don't have to worry about being cursed at and insulted... oh wait. I have a few beliefs myself which are very non-mainstream, Well, this is certainly the place to discuss it (if it involves the Moon Landings; if not, then there's even a section for that). and I look forward to discussing them here.
S'cool.
I'm sorry, but I love the BAUT forums, and I'm tired of people continually talking about how they feel vindicated and such when they just can't get that there are rules, and that you have to follow those rules.
After insulting someone, calling them a moron, etc., when the rules explicitely state that politeness is the top factor, and then get banned, they immediately say it's because "They can't prove me wrong!", or "I believe something against mainstream, so it's that!"
That's like someone going up to their boss and spitting their face, and then complaining when they get fired that it was 'cause they were black.
Also, there are rules to this forum as well. Why do you still talk here? I mean, it doesn't promote all or nothing discussion. There are limits here; it's just more lax on those limits. However, those limits still exist; and if you obey the rules in the BAUT forum, then maybe you could find out that the rules are a bit more lax there than you seem to assume.
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Post by piper on Nov 28, 2005 5:16:54 GMT -4
I agree that there need to be some rules of decorum, and the edited posts and locked threads I was referring to did not contain any trolling or unacceptable language whatsoever. The posts I was referring to were posts (mostly in the Against the Mainstream section) from people sharing new ideas, such as Michael Mozina's "Surface of the Sun" theory ( www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/) and the various threads on the Electric Universe theory. The very basis of some of these theories is to point out some "proven facts" that are not proven, or facts, at all. To attack a theory by using pre-conceived notions one has not studied themselves is not what I consider open discussion of the evidence, nor is limiting the poster to discussing only a small part of a topic, shuffling posts around, closing and locking threads at will, and silencing posters for verious lengths of time. That is why I chose not to talk there, and not for any of the reasons stated in your post. I don't like flaming or trolling or spamming either, but I also don't like shills and gatekeepers. As long as I don't see that here, I'll keep posting...
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Post by Retrograde on Nov 28, 2005 6:03:36 GMT -4
Okay, I'm tired of all of this talk about how evil the BAUT forums are. Hi Lonewulf, I've seen your posts here and at BAUT, and I think you could benefit by not letting these things bother you so much. BAUT does have a policy by which posters are required to back up their claims by evidence, and the moderators are the judges of what constitutes evidence. Some boards let anyone post any rubbish s/he wants; if someone prefers that type of board to BAUT, or agrees in principle with the BAUT approach but feels the moderators there are doing a poor job, what's the problem? I suspect that the decision by some posters to avoid BAUT makes both your life and theirs better ;D I would also mention that you refer specifically to Jason; there is a BAUT user with that username, but I believe you meant to refer to someone with a username that began with Jason but also had a surname. Nick
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lonewulf
Earth
Humanistic Cyborg
Posts: 244
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Post by lonewulf on Nov 28, 2005 19:06:54 GMT -4
I would also mention that you refer specifically to Jason; there is a BAUT user with that username, but I believe you meant to refer to someone with a username that began with Jason but also had a surname.
Ah hah. Good point. I didn't mean Jason; I meant Jason (surname); forgot who that is.
If Jason (no surname) is reading this, my bad!
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Post by Van Rijn on Dec 1, 2005 6:20:57 GMT -4
The posts I was referring to were posts (mostly in the Against the Mainstream section) from people sharing new ideas, such as Michael Mozina's "Surface of the Sun" theory ( www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/) and the various threads on the Electric Universe theory. The very basis of some of these theories is to point out some "proven facts" that are not proven, or facts, at all. To attack a theory by using pre-conceived notions one has not studied themselves is not what I consider open discussion of the evidence, nor is limiting the poster to discussing only a small part of a topic, shuffling posts around, closing and locking threads at will, and silencing posters for verious lengths of time. In regards to MM, I have to wonder how much of the MM threads you actually read? He was given a very long time to present his ideas. For the most part, they were wild interpretations of solar images that bore no relation to reality: For instance, declaring darker areas on an image of the sun to be shadows. He made a number of basic errors - for instance, he couldn't seem to understand how density was calculated and had no concept of what "black body temperature" actually meant. When pinned down and asked to answer specific questions, he would either complain but never answer, or provide an answer that, again, showed basic misunderstandings. Many people attempted, without success, to educate him, much like there have been attempts to educate Moon Man. And, most of the participants had, in fact, studied many of the subjects involved, and some were professional astronomers. For all that, he hasn't been permanently banned, but was temporarily banned because of some rather ... upset ... postings. His postings on his "iron sun" subject had been restricted until he started providing substantial answers to a few of the basic technical questions he had been asked. If he understood the subject and actually had anything substantial to provide, that should not have been an issue.
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Post by Jason Thompson on Dec 1, 2005 9:35:25 GMT -4
I didn't mean Jason; I meant Jason (surname); forgot who that is.Well, it's not me...
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lonewulf
Earth
Humanistic Cyborg
Posts: 244
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Post by lonewulf on Dec 1, 2005 14:17:26 GMT -4
Jason Gortician.
There's too many Jasons in the world. Haven't you seen Friday 13th? Jasons are eeeevil.
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Post by Retrograde on Dec 4, 2005 13:30:46 GMT -4
We not only have two many Jasons, we have two many MMs. I thought this was Moon Man for a short while...
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