Apollo out of isolation

[Bob B.]

Yawn...

You present nothing new here, Ivan. Just the same old rhetoric that has already been thoroughly debunked.

ivan said:

... but again you beleivers are just suckers to your goverment

Many members of this forum are not from the United States, thus the allegiance to the government argument doesn't hold up. These people believe the moon landings were real because the evidence in support of such a conclusion is overwhelming.

[Bob B.]

moon rocks can be easily fabricated

How so?


men went 200.000plus miles back and forth in three days in 69while we havn't gone no further than 500m out since then in the shuttles,

That’s correct. So what?


whydoesn't neil armstrong ever want to be interviewed ever

Neil Armstrong has done interviews. Just last month he appeared on TV show 60 Minutes, and here is the transcript of another interview.


why wasn't the moon dust aorund the craft stirred up during landing?

The dust was disturbed as can be clearly seen in the film of the landing. Photographs also show clear evidence of this disturbance.

[ivan]

visit www.moonmovie.com watch the threeminute or so intro please,por favor,,thats all i have to say and again you will die waitng for another landing yawn i know i said it before and i'll say it again and again and again,,you guys can't prove they did land either!!! only time will prove who's right you or me and on your death bed you'll remember me in your head ,,hey maybe that ivan guy was right ha ha, tell your nasa guys to hurry back ,,to shut guys like me up please,and by the way what did santa clause bring you guys?as for all your photographs and films ,pure hollywood,the US is master in special effects

[twinstead]

Like drinking and driving, blind ideology and ignorance is a BAD combination.

I hope you are young (as if there's any doubt LOL), so you will still be alive so when an American, Chinese, or European astronaut takes a snapshot of a 50 year old lunar rover on the surface of the moon you can slap yourself in the head and say "DO'H!".

[ivan]

twinstead said:

Like drinking and driving, blind ideology and ignorance is a BAD combination.

I hope you are young (as if there's any doubt LOL), so you will still be alive so when an American, Chinese, or European astronaut takes a snapshot of a 50 year old lunar rover on the surface of the moon you can slap yourself in the head and say "DO'H!".

when will that be?don't you think by now we would of at least made a non landing space cruise around the moon?or near it,whats there reason fo not going so far now,no money? but sure enough dough for an idiotic war,

[jaydeehess]

ivan said:

,,,,,,,,,don't you think by now we would of at least made a non landing space cruise around the moon?or near it,,,,,,,,

I have a better question. Why send a manned mission around or 'near' the Moon?

[Jason Thompson]

I wonder if Ivan would be good enough to explain what any of his posts have to do with the point of this thread. How does it relate to the original point of Apollo techniques and hardware being used outside Apollo?

[ivan]

jaydeehess said:

ivan said:

,,,,,,,,,don't you think by now we would of at least made a non landing space cruise around the moon?or near it,,,,,,,,

I have a better question. Why send a manned mission around or 'near' the Moon?

,maybe to take pictures of the barbeque grill,beer cans and their famous golf cart they left behind,why does Bill cliton write in his book , it could of been staged?

[ivan]

ivan said:

jaydeehess said:

I have a better question. Why send a manned mission around or 'near' the Moon?

,maybe to take pictures of the barbeque grill,beer cans and their famous golf cart they left behind,why does Bill cliton write in his book , it could of been staged?,i give up guys sorry for interupting your apollo thread,no more posts from me for a while,Iam heading to cancun,keep on beleiving

[lenbrazil]

twinstead said:

Like drinking and driving, blind ideology and ignorance is a BAD combination.

I hope you are young (as if there's any doubt LOL), so you will still be alive so when an American, Chinese, or European astronaut takes a snapshot of a 50 year old lunar rover on the surface of the moon you can slap yourself in the head and say "DO'H!".

According to his profile he's 42.

[PhantomWolf]

Ivan, I think what you fail to realise is that must of us have known about and have dealt with Bart Sibrel and his claims for years. We know his arguments by rote and we don't have to go to his site and watch his intro to know what he says. We also know why he is wrong. You obviously don't. The fact that when questioned, all you can do is say, "Go to Bart's site" shows that you don't understand the issues at all, you simply have swallowed what he told you hook, line and sinker. You say "you beleivers are just suckers to your goverment," well I say that you "are just sucker to Sibrel."

Have you actually explored his arguments? Have you tested them to see if they are right? Or did he tell you want you longed to hear, that the US Government lies and is a terrible nd evil thing?

Though I doubt you'll do it, because I've yet to see any Hoax Beliver whose actually willing to break free and do it, go and learn about Apollo. Look through the thousands of photos for yourself instead of being given cropped and poor images and being told what to see. Get a camera and go outside. Take some photos of stars and shadows to test Bart's claims about parrallel shadows, stars and other things. Read up on the Van Allen Belts from NON-hoax sites and NON-NASA sites. Go and learn about the Soviet Space Program, including their Lunar Program. Find out why and how it failed. Go and read up on Gemini and what they did in these missions. Read Chariots for Apollo and find out about the background behind the Apollo missions and how they were done. Learn about all the training that the Astronauts had to do, including Apollo 7-10. Until you know all of this stuff, you have no right to claim the missions were hoaxed. Unless you can do more that quote or point back to Sibrel, until you can make arguments of your own based on fact and not Bart, all you are is a mindless puppet of Sibrel just sheepishly parroting what he tells you to. Accepting Sibrel's claims so unthinkingly, allowing him to tell you what to believe, all it does is just makes you a sheep of a different colour.

Do some research man. Learn about Sibrel, investigate him and see if he is really trustworthy. Find out his qualifications in the area he speaks about. Being open-minded doesn't mean accepting whatever sounds like what you want to believe, it means taking information and applying thought and logic to it then accepting the outcome whether the outcome is what you want to believe or not!

By the way, like Bob pointed out, there are many people from different countries on this Forum. Canada, The UK, Australia, Bazil, Germany, and I'm from New Zealand. We have no reasons to believe or even to like the US Government, but when it comes to Apollo, the proof is there, and the claims of people like Sibrel don't stand up to the historical, the science, or even basic photographic tests. All you have to do to learn that is be willing to open your mind enough to learn and to do the tests yourself. Of course if you want to continue being a sheep and a puppet of Bart, keeping your mind locked up tight and living in a small world of your own creation, that's fine, no one is going to stop you, but understand that the choice is yours to whether you open your eyes and broaden your understanding and life, or if you close them and remain a zombie-like sucker to people like Bart Sibrel who are just out to steal both your money and your mind.

[lonewulf]

Nice post, Phantom.

Ivan, your arguments (the parts that aren't debunked in the time it says to "We have a problem with you, Houston...", that is), seem to revolve around "Bart Sibrel said so", and "because I said so". You thrust forth a lot of insults and vitriol at the members of this board, without knowing both sides of the argument. At least, I assume you don't know both sides of the argument from your posts; correct me if I'm wrong.

For the record, speaking as someone who went through a course on how to debate, opening up with insults and vitriol is a good way to make sure people will *NOT* listen to you. No one likes to be called stupid and idiotic, and it makes them clam up, and be unwilling to listen to what you have to say. This is speaking purely from the stance of a debater.

Speaking from the stance of evidence, the claims of Sibrel have been debunked several times throughout the years, on many websites. Until you show the willingness to visit these websites for yourself and see both sides of the issue, I consider your opinion moot.

Also, I don't believe in Santa Clause, and I don't believe in the Easter Bunny. I do know some the history of Easter and Christmas, though... well, I know some of the basic details, but nothing too detailed.

I do, however, believe in the engineers, physicists, and astronomers that give us the power to be the technologically advanced nation we are today.

Oh, as for your comments on us not going back to the moon... you said it yourself, on the comment about Bush and the War on Iraq. Budget concerns; the government doesn't like to give money to NASA. They did throughout the Cold War, but there were rather special circumstances behind that situation. Now, they snipe the NASA budget whenever they can; NASA had predicted we would have moon bases by 2010. It's unfortunate that this isn't a reality, thanks to politicians unwilling to fund them outside of the Cold War.

Until you pull the fingers from out of your ears, and keep saying "Sibrel said so!" ad infinitum, you're wasting your time here.

Oh, also! Another thing for the record: In my opinion, Bush sucks. I have reservations about the War on Iraq, and I can't wait for the situation to be over. I may be somewhat American, but I was not born and raised in the US; I was bor and raised in Germany, and I have lived in Korea for 6 to 7 years. Also, I'm thinking of going back to Germany again. Your claim that I'm a puppet for the government doesn't hold any water.

[Data Cable]

ivan said:

listen you will DIE waiting for another lunar landing

Perhaps, perhaps not. But this is irrelevant as to whether the Apollo program already did it in the late 60's and early 70's.

...moon rocks can be easily fabricated...

Please explain how.

...you beleive, men went 200.000plus miles back and forth in three days in 69...

No, we believe men went 500,000 miles back and forth in about 2 weeks.

...while we havn't gone no further than 500m out since then in the shuttles

Question: Do you believe that passengers were ever carried across the Atlantic at supersonic speeds, when no airline currently has the capability to do so?

whydoesn't neil armstrong ever want to be interviewed ever

Ever? Ever?

Neil Armstrong Steps Into 60 Minutes Spotlight

NASA Johnson Space Center Oral Histort Project [PDF]

Apollo 11 crew recalls giant leap 35 years later

why wasn't the moon dust aorund the craft stirred up during landing?

Because there is no atmosphere in which the dust particles would become suspended.

president kennedy promised the nation man will reach the moon before the decade was over

If you are referring to the speech I think you're referring to, no such promise was made therein. Please quote for us when this promise was made.

but again you beleivers are just suckers to your goverment

Many of "us believers" do not live under that particular government, and it's a ridiculous assertion anyway.

[lonewulf]

datacable said:

Many of "us believers" do not live under that particular government, and it's a ridiculous assertion anyway.

Not to mention insulting. "You don't agree with me, thus you MUST be deluded by the evil gubmint!"

[iamspartacus]

Ivan may well be a chain yanker in which case he has already achieved what he wanted, namely getting us to respond to him. On the other hand he may indeed be a genuine HB which means he lives in an irrational belief based world and not a rational one based on evidence. By “evidence” I mean evidence that stands up to any king or scrutiny.

I think you guys have done the right thing. You have been patient and polite and tried to point him in the right direction. I think we just have to accept that some people live in a different world to us. It’s a lot smaller than ours of course.