HB Contradictions

[Jason Thompson]

You don't need to be a film director to know that you cannot simulate zero gravity for over an hour at a time, or that you cannot make objects appear to be in a 1/6th G vacuum environment. You are arguing from sheer ignorance, and simply asserting that something would be possible. If you want to convince us, show us examples of how a film crew can achieve what is seen in the Apollo film and video.

[Jason Thompson]

I used an online inflation calculator. The total cost of Apollo by the end of the program was $24billion. I fed it in and got a number.

Perhaps you'd tell us how you got $350billion?

[Bob B.]

greigdempsey said:

Perhaps you would like to give us a detailed breakdown of the maths you used totranslate 1960 to 1973 spending to 2006 spending..

Consumer Price Index Calculator

Using the CPI is not perfect but it gets us close.

[greigdempsey]

echnaton said:

"No props can reproduce what is seen in the Apollo video."

You are a film director or a special effects director perhaps ?

Are you? Just saying so does not make it true. This is your claim, do you have any facts to back it up?

I didn't make any claim.. He said it couldn't be done. It's much easier if we stick to what is actually said ..

[Jason Thompson]

You're carefully wording your arguments to make it sound like you're not making claims, but it is implicit in your words that you think it could all be one big Hollywood movie, so demonstrate how that could be the case.

[Mr Gorsky]

greigdempsey said:

I didn't make any claim.. He said it couldn't be done. It's much easier if we stick to what is actually said ..

Yes you did ... you said that the equivalent cost of Apollo in today's terms is $350Billion. Jason and Bob then explained how they calculated that you were wrong, so you either need to back up your figure by explaining how you arrived at it, or concede that it was a mistake.

Even if you allocate all $24billion as if they were spent in 1960, the value in today's terms is only just shy of $164billion. In reality the costs were spread over a number of years ending in 1972/3.

[greigdempsey]

mrgorsky said:

greigdempsey said:

I didn't make any claim.. He said it couldn't be done. It's much easier if we stick to what is actually said ..

Yes you did ... you said that the equivalent cost of Apollo in today's terms is $350Billion. Jason and Bob then explained how they calculated that you were wrong, so you either need to back up your figure by explaining how you arrived at it, or concede that it was a mistake.

Again, it's much easier if we follow the actual argument. I didn't make any claim about it being impossible to fake the landings in a studio.

[Jason Thompson]

Stop evading the question. You claimed Apollo cost $350billion equivalent. We said you were wrong and you asked us how we arrived at our figure. We told you. Do you accept that and concede you made an error or not?

[greigdempsey]

I'm not making any claims about anything. I'm disputing what Jay Utah said. The director of Caprocorn One said that the Apollo budget was $40 billion. If we translate that as as $250 billion (not 350) in today's money, that's 2,500 Hollywood films or 1,200 if we accepted Bob's figures.

[Mr Gorsky]

OK, then in addition to addressing the figures, you need to address Jason's points about the impossibility of simulating zero gravity for over an hour at a time, and simulating the behaviour of objects in 1/6th gravity on the lunar surface.

If your argument is that could have been a movie then it is a pointless one, since without demonstrating how those points could have been addressed it clearly could not have been a movie.

And why take the word of Peter Hyams as gospel concerning the budget of Apollo?

[Jason Thompson]

The director of Caprocorn One said that the Apollo budget was $40 billion.

$40billion in what money? Capricorn 1 was made in 1978. It just so happens that $24billion in 1973 dollars is about $40billion in 1978 dollars.

And why should the director of Capricorn 1 be considered a reliable source for the cost of Apollo? I repeat, every single source I have ever seen gives the APollo program a final cost of $24billion.

[greigdempsey]

mrgorsky said:

OK, then in addition to addressing the figures, you need to address Jason's points about the impossibility of simulating zero gravity for over an hour at a time, and simulating the behaviour of objects in 1/6th gravity on the lunar surface.

If your argument is that could have been a movie then it is a pointless one, since without demonstrating how those points could have been addressed it clearly could not have been a movie.

And why take the word of Peter Hyams as gospel concerning the budget of Apollo?

Not gospel but as believable as NASA.

What in the Apollo films do you believe couldn't be simulated ?

[Jason Thompson]

How do you simulate zero gravity? How do you simulate dust in a 1/6th G vacuum? How do you make everything that falls or otherwise acts under gravity appear to fall slower or fly further than it would here, while keeping astronauts arm and hand motions at normal speed? How do you make a flag remain utterly static for hours on end in a large set? How do you film the lunar module all the way from a tiny speck against the surface right through to docking from the command module window? How do you film out the LM window a takeoff that goes from ground level to high altitude in one continuous piece of film, or a landing that does the reverse of that?

[Bob B.]

greigdempsey said:

I didn't make any claim about it being impossible to fake the landings in a studio.

True, but you did imply it was possible to fake them in a studio.

I say it is impossible beyond any reasonable doubt that hours of continuous uninterrupted footage could be produced in any facility on Earth showing astronauts driving across kilometers of sunlit terrain with a black sky above them while experiencing six-sixth gravity in a vacuum.

Do you care to explain for us how the Apollo motion imagery could have been faked on Earth? And more importantly, what evidence do you have that it was faked?

[Jason Thompson]

And why should you take the word of the Capricorn 1 director over every other source regarding the cost of Apollo?