Harassment by HBs?

[Cavorite]

I do a bit of what I charitably call missionary work to the benighted on GLP. It's not completely pointless; about once a month or so I'll get a reply from someone thanking me for explaining something that now makes sense to them. That helps make it worthwhile.

I don't do it under my real name, largely because I suspect that some arrested development adolescent may try to send me a dead fish by surface mail or something similarly annoying. I don't fear anyone turning up on my doorstep, as I live in the arse end of nowhere, but mail, phone or email harassment struck me as a real possibility.

So, a question to the public ID debunkers, particularly the higher profile ones: have you ever received any real world harassment because of your activities? I would understand if nobody wanted to answer that, I'm just wondering if it is a real issue. I'll have to finally get around to registering at BAUT so I can ask Phil Plait as well. My gut feeling is that this sort of thing is very rare indeed, but I'm sure that I'm not the only person that has though twice about revealing their secret identity for this reason.

[JayUtah]

In the first couple of years I received a few threats by e-mail, one serious enough to make me consider reporting it to law enforcement. None lately, however. People talk about me incessantly, but not really to me.

It's common these days (but somewhat questionable) to Google the names of candidates for employment. If I'm in a situation where I believe someone might surf my name on the web, I mention that I'm an author on a controversial subject and therefore the target of considerable criticism.

There was an interesting case a while back when I was interviewing someone for a position, who turned out to be a BAUT lurker. He was little bit nervous when he realized he was being interviewed by "JayUtah." But he had little to fear, and I hired him, and he's one of my most talented people.

Nearly all the feedback I receive in real life these days is positive.

[LunarOrbit]

I don't use my real name in hoax debates but it probably wouldn't be too hard for a hoax believer to discover it if they really wanted to. My best protection is that they don't tend to do any research.

The worst "harassment" I get comes from my friends who like to tease me... "Hey, did you hear the news? The moon landings were FAKED!" It never gets old.

I do know someone who was the victim of some serious harassment (not from HBs though) that started out as an online disagreement about politics and became kind of scary. The harasser discovered the victims real name and home address and threats of violence were made. The harasser even joined a neo-nazi email list using the victim's name, told them he is Jewish and basically encouraged them to come to his home and kill him. The police in two countries were contacted but this went on for years (and probably still does) without any action from the authorities. That is why I highly recommend that people use aliases and not share private information about themselves online.

[HeadLikeARock (was postbaguk)]

I'm registered under my real name on the Education Forum where I've posted about 700 times, mainly on Apollo-related topics. I primarily wanted to be able to examine Jack's White's studies on a forum that he was a member of, so he'd have the opportunity to defend, amend or withdraw his claims.

I thought long and hard about registering on a forum that requires real world details, and with the benefit of hindsight I'm not so sure it was a good thing. I've not been threatened but have had some pretty nasty stuff directed towards me, which is easy enough to brush off when I'm "postbaguk" or "HeadLikeARock", but now that CTs now my real identity I've had to waste a lot of time defending myself against false accusations of lying that wouldn't have bothered me as much previously. I'm glad I registered at the Education Forum though, there's a lot of interesting debate on a variety of topics by "adults" with a very wide range of views. To be honest I sometimes get a bit embarrassed seeing the Apollo hoax threads intermingled with genuine and serious political conspiracies, but disinformation is best off nipped in the bud wherever it appears!

[svector]

Once someone called me at my home using some kind of computerized dialing service. The computer voice on the phone called me by name, and said "stop spreading your lies about the moon landings or we'll get you"....something to that effect. It was ultra creepy. At the end of the message the voice reported the IP address of the person initiating the call, so I wrote it down and checked it. Turned out to be from an ISP in Wisconsin or Minnesota...can't remember exactly.

Anyway, a few days passed and one of my best friends who was previously an HB asked if I'd received any weird calls lately. He then confessed that he'd put his wife up to it just to razz me. We shared a good chuckle, but he really started cutting loose when I told him I'd noticed someone in a car shining their high beams into my windows not long after I got the call, and that I thought Bart Sibrel had finally tracked me down.

[JayUtah]

People razz me too, but since it's intended in good-natured fun, I respond with good-natured fun. When my co-workers (most of whom know what I do on the side) make some pointed reference to "...and that's part of how they hoaxed the Moon landings," I pick up my phone and say, "This is operative 24601: we have a Code Orange at my location." Chuckles all round. "But you didn't even dial!" they say. "It's the NSA," I respond. "Don't have to." Or sometimes I play along with the devil's advocate routine and say, "We'll just do what NASA did when they built their secret anti-gravity chambers."

There's a lighter side to taking a partisan position on a controversial topic. These days I lean toward that. I'm fully aware that Jarrah White and others are doing their best to villify me. I just have faith that those whose opinion matter to me aren't going to be swayed by the likes of Jarrah White, and that if push comes to shove I have all the facts on my side.

[gillianren]

I have to say, though, Jay--I don't think it's a controversial topic. I think people like Jarrah White try to make it controversial, but it really isn't. Most people wouldn't even hesitate to say that people have walked on the Moon. I suspect that, until Stephen Colbert started joking about not believing in the Moon landings, most people didn't know there were people who don't. I know my friends are constantly surprised to find it out, the first time I tell them what I do with all my spare time. (I have a ton of spare time.) My therapist had a hard time believing there were enough people who disbelieved it out there to take up any of our time.

I do agree that those who do think it's a controversial topic can make life difficult for people who have the good sense to know which way the evidence lies--just ask Buzz.

[Bob B.]

I’ve been harassed only in that I occasionally receive an insulting email that usually goes something like this: “You’re disgusting for spreading lies about Apollo. Someday the truth will come out and you’ll get what’s coming to you.” Messages like this are nothing more than an HB venting frustration and, most likely, can be safely dismissed. I’ve never received anything approaching what I would consider a serious threat. Furthermore, I’ve never received repeat harassment from the same person, at least not to my knowledge.

I suspect the email I’ve received has come from people stumbling across my web page. I can’t recall any instances where someone apparently tracked me down after an encounter on a web forum.

I once did something that, in retrospect, was probably foolish. IDW was once ranting about how he was going to sue me and all the other Apollo ‘disinformationists’, though for what I don’t recall. Feeling certain it was nothing but bluster, I posted my real name and city of residence and told him to come get me. I figured that since my name is on my web page, I wasn’t revealing anything that he couldn’t find out anyway. As I suspected, nothing became of it.

[Mr Gorsky]

This is always where I slap my head in disbelief ... if they truly believed that the evidence was on their side, and that the "truth will come out", why do they feel the need to threaten those who disagree with them?

[Bob B.]

mrgorsky said:

... why do they feel the need to threaten those who disagree with them?

Because they don't think we merely disagree with them. That can’t understand how we interpret the evidence differently than they do, thus they believe anyone who defends Apollo must be in cahoots with the conspirators and part of an organized disinformation campaign. It is therefore justified to threaten us with retribution for our crimes.

[reynoldbot]

Hey svector, I was watching your moon hoax analysis videos on youtube, and I can't find episode four. Was it taken down or something? I know you had a debacle with episode 5 and all...

I once got harassed thru a PM on this forum during one of the more heated political debates a year or two ago. Nothing dangerous or anything, just a childish insult.

[gillianren]

I was discussing things with my best friend this morning, and we've decided that those who, you know, write and sell books about the Hoax are the paid shills. At least they get paid, right?

[JayUtah]

Bart Sibrel, David Percy, and Ralph Rene are three people whom I know to have a financial stake in the acceptance of the ideas they promote. I don't know whether its enough of a stake to make the difference between prosperity and starvation, but especially in Sibrel's case there is a substantial amount of money involved: Sibrel's production company that produces only his hoax videos posted six figures in yearly revenue. Bart Sibrel is clearly in the business of promoting an Apollo hoax theory.

Pecuniary motive is not per se wrong, but if one is going to play the card of whose motivations are purest, the conspiracy theorists clearly don't win.

[Obviousman]

postbaguk said:

I'm registered under my real name on the Education Forum where I've posted about 700 times, mainly on Apollo-related topics. I primarily wanted to be able to examine Jack's White's studies on a forum that he was a member of, so he'd have the opportunity to defend, amend or withdraw his claims.

I thought long and hard about registering on a forum that requires real world details, and with the benefit of hindsight I'm not so sure it was a good thing. I've not been threatened but have had some pretty nasty stuff directed towards me, which is easy enough to brush off when I'm "postbaguk" or "HeadLikeARock", but now that CTs now my real identity I've had to waste a lot of time defending myself against false accusations of lying that wouldn't have bothered me as much previously. I'm glad I registered at the Education Forum though, there's a lot of interesting debate on a variety of topics by "adults" with a very wide range of views. To be honest I sometimes get a bit embarrassed seeing the Apollo hoax threads intermingled with genuine and serious political conspiracies, but disinformation is best off nipped in the bud wherever it appears!

I can understand posty's reluctance. Normally, it doesn't worry me but then there are some strange people out there. There is one guy on EF who keeps accusing me of being involved in the intelligence community or possibly being there at the behest of the Australian military, of which I am a part of. The guy is just plain paranoid. Now this wouldn't be such a concern, but he has obviously done a web search on my (real) name and posted Navy articles where I was involved. That was classic; the squadron I was with embarked on a ship for a major exercise (Ex SINGAROO). We took three aircraft with us. This was the first time three RAN aircraft had been embarked since the loss of our carrier, so it was a pretty big deal for us (We had squadron patches made up for the det: "We had a threesome on Kanimbla!"). Naturally during a major exercise, Defence PR was there. The head PR guy was an old classmate of mine, so he did a spread on the three reservists who came back into the Navy after paying off, and what we thought of things now.

This guy found that VERRRRRY suspicious.

The fact this guy has tried to search my background (I wonder if he found the article where I met ABBA as a kid?) and posts such mundane stuff is worrying. I don't consider him mentally stable after that. Who knows what he might be capable of?

So, Posty, I understand where you are coming from.

[HeadLikeARock (was postbaguk)]

obviousman said:

I can understand posty's reluctance. Normally, it doesn't worry me but then there are some strange people out there. There is one guy on EF who keeps accusing me of being involved in the intelligence community or possibly being there at the behest of the Australian military, of which I am a part of. The guy is just plain paranoid. Now this wouldn't be such a concern, but he has obviously done a web search on my (real) name and posted Navy articles where I was involved. That was classic; the squadron I was with embarked on a ship for a major exercise (Ex SINGAROO). We took three aircraft with us. This was the first time three RAN aircraft had been embarked since the loss of our carrier, so it was a pretty big deal for us (We had squadron patches made up for the det: "We had a threesome on Kanimbla!"). Naturally during a major exercise, Defence PR was there. The head PR guy was an old classmate of mine, so he did a spread on the three reservists who came back into the Navy after paying off, and what we thought of things now.

This guy found that VERRRRRY suspicious.

The fact this guy has tried to search my background (I wonder if he found the article where I met ABBA as a kid?) and posts such mundane stuff is worrying. I don't consider him mentally stable after that. Who knows what he might be capable of?

So, Posty, I understand where you are coming from.

Well, for good or bad, the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box has been opened, and the horse has well and truly bolted! I've no intention of changing my name by deed poll just to avoid the occasional vitriolic outburst. Anyway, it will all be moot in a few years time when moon missions by other countries provide completely indepent evidence that... oh, I forgot they're making there excuses already: the Chinese are in on it; NASA has been sending fake LMs to the moon; they drained the Van Allen belts. Actually I read an article recently about the possibility of draining the Van Allen belts, so I'm 100% convinced it will be used an excuse to keep dissing Apollo when manned moon missions recommence.