raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Feb 5, 2008 3:29:24 GMT -4
thank you, you guys are so helpful you are willing even to do time travel. thanks.
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Post by wadefrazier3 on Feb 9, 2008 12:01:04 GMT -4
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Post by nomuse on Feb 9, 2008 18:13:46 GMT -4
You know, I'm REALLY starting to hate the way the H.B.'s trot out any example of someone saying "I can hardly believe we did it" or "It seems like a dream" or "I don't even know what I was feeling at the time" as evidence that the thing was faked.
Have they NEVER done anything -- painted a painting, climbed a cliff, completed a race, worked ten years at the same job, got their degree, met a wonderful person who became their life-mate -- and said "I can hardly believe this happened/is happening/can be true/isn't a dream?"
What absurdly boring, drab lives they live, with nothing experienced strongly, no accomplishment or adventure to look back on with awe, no experience (the feeling of winning a race, the grandeur of an Alaskan glacier, the taste of the best sushi in Kyoto) that they struggle to find the words to describe.
Well, maybe if you do nothing but work checkout at Wallmart and read conspiracy rantings online in your free time, you _don't_ have anything in your experience so remarkable as to make the sorts of phrases described above necessary.
But even that, I have trouble believing. The ordinary world is so full of detail, so filled with ordinary miracles. My own imagination is not up to the idea of someone living in such a gray fog that every experience they ever have is always within full reach of their memory and of their language. I can not do justice, in my own memories or in the words I chose, to yesterday's sunset or even this morning's breakfast. Am I some sort of liar, charlatan, or member of a conspiracy that I recognize the limits of memory and language to truly capture the depth and variety of experience?
The simpler answer is that, yes, those are within the experience of even Duane Daman. He just choses to ignore all the times he has had the opportunity to say, "I can't believe I just did that!"
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 9, 2008 18:51:28 GMT -4
Why, nomuse, I have to say that is a beautiful post. Prose like and sincere, with many good points made.
Have they NEVER done anything -- painted a painting, climbed a cliff, completed a race, worked ten years at the same job, got their degree, met a wonderful person who became their life-mate -- and said "I can hardly believe this happened/is happening/can be true/isn't a dream?"
What absurdly boring, drab lives they live, with nothing experienced strongly, no accomplishment or adventure to look back on with awe, no experience (the feeling of winning a race, the grandeur of an Alaskan glacier, the taste of the best sushi in Kyoto) that they struggle to find the words to describe.
Or turned their amp on eleven and let the feedback build up and up and up until it was time to swing your arm down and strike that chord. ;D Or how about being at the birth of your children... Or visiting your place of birth after being away for fifteen years... Or having sex for the first time...;D Or when camping, having the Northern Lights tower above a lake... Or watching frogs on the bank of a river... Or seeing the stars away from the city on a clear, cloudless night...
Not extravagant moments, but at the time they were all perfect, and can be difficult to describe.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 9, 2008 21:24:19 GMT -4
There's a darker side to it too. I thought 9/11 felt like a dream, or a movie, as I watched planes crash into buildings and buildings collapse. But it was all too real.
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reynoldbot
Jupiter
A paper-white mask of evil.
Posts: 790
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Post by reynoldbot on Feb 9, 2008 22:24:03 GMT -4
I think conspiracy theorists substitute the excitement and achievements of others for feeling the personal excitement of having a "truth" that they feel is hidden or suppressed, a truth that they feel puts them in an exclusive club. Unfortunately, they are too naive to realize if what they knew was really valuable in any way, they wouldn't have that knowledge. That's why all the conspiracy theories are comprised of hearsay, supposition and subjective opinions.
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Feb 10, 2008 6:44:47 GMT -4
There's a darker side to it too. I thought 9/11 felt like a dream, or a movie, as I watched planes crash into buildings and buildings collapse. But it was all too real. I don't know why I did this, but I looked up the Challenger Disaster on youtube. Now, I feel sick. I saw events unfold I had read about it, and seen some still photos of the famous 'explosion', but never had I seen the coverage from CNN. I also saw what seemed to be a home movie of the woman who was the backup teacher in space watching the liftoff. I feel like a time traveller, watching something unfold, knowing what will happen, but not being able to do anything about it. I cried.
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Post by gillianren on Feb 10, 2008 16:43:03 GMT -4
Oh, my. It always makes me feel so old when people say they haven't seen the Challenger footage. When I was a kid, they played it all the time; you can still run across it on TV if you watch things like "Engineering Disasters" on Modern Marvels on the History Channel. It's hardly as though there are no non-YouTube opportunities left.
Then again, I imagine I make quite a lot of others around here feel old because that particular incident happened "when I was a kid."
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 10, 2008 18:51:47 GMT -4
Oh, my. It always makes me feel so old when people say they haven't seen the Challenger footage. When I was a kid, they played it all the time; you can still run across it on TV if you watch things like "Engineering Disasters" on Modern Marvels on the History Channel. It's hardly as though there are no non-YouTube opportunities left. Then again, I imagine I make quite a lot of others around here feel old because that particular incident happened "when I was a kid." heh me too. I'm starting to know what it's like for the people here that saw Apollo 11 launch when I talk to peiople who stare blankly when you mention seeing the April 12, 1981, launch of Columbia or the Berlin wall fall...
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 10, 2008 18:56:12 GMT -4
Oh, my. It always makes me feel so old when people say they haven't seen the Challenger footage. When I was a kid, they played it all the time; you can still run across it on TV if you watch things like "Engineering Disasters" on Modern Marvels on the History Channel. It's hardly as though there are no non-YouTube opportunities left. Then again, I imagine I make quite a lot of others around here feel old because that particular incident happened "when I was a kid." heh me too. I'm starting to know what it's like for the people here that saw Apollo 11 launch when I talk to peiople who stare blankly when you mention seeing the April 12, 1981, launch of Columbia or the Berlin wall fall... The oldest TV event I can remember is the JFK funeral. I was only five, but it still stick out in my memory. Of course seeing the Beatles the next year on Ed Sullivan was unforgettable.
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reynoldbot
Jupiter
A paper-white mask of evil.
Posts: 790
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Post by reynoldbot on Feb 10, 2008 20:46:11 GMT -4
The Challenger Disaster happened about two months before I was born. I looked up a lot of the same youtube videos. The most informative one showed in slow motion the crew module emerging from the fireball and identified other fragments of the shuttle. The audio is terrible but the video is remarkable.
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Post by Count Zero on Feb 10, 2008 23:31:22 GMT -4
On the other hand, you get people who live lives like this.
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