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Post by turbonium on Aug 19, 2005 1:54:05 GMT -4
Is Connally sitting on the Presidents lap in the middle picture? LMAO - that's hilarious! It looks like he is! Maybe JFK was a ventriloquist and had a Connally puppet!
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Post by LunarOrbit on Aug 19, 2005 2:01:29 GMT -4
It looks like they left out the middle row of seats and the car is too short... in other words, not really an accurate simulation.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Aug 19, 2005 12:36:41 GMT -4
Is Connally sitting on the Presidents lap in the middle picture? No: I think that's just telephoto foreshortening
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Post by snakeriverrufus on Aug 19, 2005 15:03:46 GMT -4
posted by turbo I've recovered jacketed flat point, round nose and hollow point rounds that I've load and shot., and on occasion lead solid cast round nose bullets. Medium recovered from game and stationary targets, and ranging from soft to hard material targets.
That gives you some reference, which is good. How many steel jacketed solids have you recovered?
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Post by turbonium on Aug 20, 2005 4:52:30 GMT -4
posted by turbo I've recovered jacketed flat point, round nose and hollow point rounds that I've load and shot., and on occasion lead solid cast round nose bullets. Medium recovered from game and stationary targets, and ranging from soft to hard material targets. That gives you some reference, which is good. How many steel jacketed solids have you recovered? Copper coated steel jackets, I have. Steel jackets not bonded or coated, none I can recall, at least in the past few years.
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Post by Joe Durnavich on Aug 20, 2005 9:40:19 GMT -4
It looks like they left out the middle row of seats and the car is too short... in other words, not really an accurate simulation.
The simulation is accurate. What may be throwing you is that the seat Connally is sitting in is a jump seat. These are low seats that fold down when not in use. Connally is seated pretty close to the floor of the limo. Kennedy, on the other hand, is in a motor-driven seat that he can elevate with the push of a button.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Aug 20, 2005 16:38:36 GMT -4
What may be throwing you is that the seat Connally is sitting in is a jump seat. These are low seats that fold down when not in use. Yes, I think that's what I was having problems with. I couldn't see the back of Connally's seat.
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Post by turbonium on Aug 21, 2005 2:18:17 GMT -4
The simulation is accurate. What may be throwing you is that the seat Connally is sitting in is a jump seat. These are low seats that fold down when not in use. Connally is seated pretty close to the floor of the limo. Kennedy, on the other hand, is in a motor-driven seat that he can elevate with the push of a button. The simulation does have inaccuracies, however, and also contradicts the single bullet theory. As I noted, the position of Connally in front of JFK - he is shown to the left side of JFK, well away from the right side of the limo. The Zapruder still, and other images, show Connally is aligned directly in front of JFK, to the right side of the limo.
And the crosshairs are aimed at JFK's back, which is correct for the evidence (JFK's shirt, jacket and entry wound 5 to 6 inches down the back)), but this contradicts the single bullet theory. The SBT depends on the bullet exiting JFK's throat, without hitting bone.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 21, 2005 2:58:44 GMT -4
The simulation is accurate. What may be throwing you is that the seat Connally is sitting in is a jump seat. These are low seats that fold down when not in use. Connally is seated pretty close to the floor of the limo. Kennedy, on the other hand, is in a motor-driven seat that he can elevate with the push of a button.The simulation does have inaccuracies, however, and also contradicts the single bullet theory. As I noted, the position of Connally in front of JFK - he is shown to the left side of JFK, well away from the right side of the limo. The Zapruder still, and other images, show Connally is aligned directly in front of JFK, to the right side of the limo. I disagree. To me the Zapruder still posted on the last page shows Connlly sitting in from the side of the vehicle, there is what looks to me like a large gap between where he sits and the side of the car. That position would put him to Kennedy's left, just as the simulation shows.
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Post by turbonium on Aug 21, 2005 3:55:26 GMT -4
I disagree. To me the Zapruder still posted on the last page shows Connlly sitting in from the side of the vehicle, there is what looks to me like a large gap between where he sits and the side of the car. That position would put him to Kennedy's left, just as the simulation shows.The actual images tell a different story. Look at these frames - no way that Connally is to the left of JFK. And, consider that the view from the TSB was on an angle from the right hand side of the limo. That would have had JFK to the left of Connally from that vantage point, if anything.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 21, 2005 4:34:03 GMT -4
I still disagree with you. You have to remember that Connally is much lower than Kennedy and that as the car becomes more side on the seperation is less obvious from a 2D representation of a 3D situation. Connally's shoulder is about the height if the car side, maybe a little higher. Kennedy is higher up and sitting vitually next to the side of the car. If you look at the rough lines I've drawn, you can se that Connally is much further into the car than Kennedy is.
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Post by turbonium on Aug 21, 2005 6:25:35 GMT -4
Again, I beg to differ. You're image does not properly line up JFK and Connally relative to the right side of the limo. You need to look at Zapruder frame 236 as I posted, to see that Connally has even put his left hand on the right side edge of the limo. He is brushed right up to the inside right of the limo. In the below frame you can see JFK's head is to the inside left of Connally. And, the rough trajectory I put in also shows that there is no way Connally would be to the left of JFK.
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Post by turbonium on Aug 21, 2005 6:34:46 GMT -4
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Post by PhantomWolf on Aug 21, 2005 7:45:40 GMT -4
Okay having located an image of the inside of the car I’ll note a few things. The Jump seat is directly in front of the centre of the seat Kennedy is in, but it is also inset a way from the side of the door which is also thinner than the sidewall by Kennedy’s seat, so it would be extremely hard for Connally to have been “Hard pressed up against the door” because he’d have had to be half seated on the floor of the car to do it. Since the simulation image and film stills show him turned to his right, his back would be across to the left side of the jump seat, so that puts his torso further into the centre of the car. Kennedy’s seat is wider than the jump seat and the images do suggest that he is right up against the side of the car, which is to the right of the centre line of his seat and the jump seat. That positioning would indeed put Connally to Kennedy’s left, though I would agree after seeing the photos that the simulation has moved the jump seat in a little too far. Connally still should be to the left of Kennedy, but my estimate would put the centre of his head about where the line of the crosshair is.
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Post by turbonium on Aug 23, 2005 1:09:49 GMT -4
I think JFK is even to the left of Connally, as their lines of sight below indicates. And, the fact the shot would come from behind and to the right of the limo, would make JFK even more to the left side of Connally.
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