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Post by Obviousman on Oct 11, 2006 5:04:21 GMT -4
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Post by echnaton on Oct 11, 2006 9:52:47 GMT -4
Just because people thought it sounded like a bomb doesn't mean it wasn't a bomb. You are correct, only hearing a percussive sound is only evidence of hearing a percussive sound. It does not point to or exclude a particular source of the sound. Identifying the source requires further investigation.
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Post by Dead Hoosiers on Oct 13, 2006 3:05:51 GMT -4
Just because people thought it sounded like a bomb doesn't mean it wasn't a bomb.Are you suggesting that someone blew up the overpass? No, I was just recalling portions of the Katrina discussion and I was grouchy.
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Post by Dead Hoosiers on Oct 13, 2006 3:07:09 GMT -4
Just because people thought it sounded like a bomb doesn't mean it wasn't a bomb. You are correct, only hearing a percussive sound is only evidence of hearing a percussive sound. It does not point to or exclude a particular source of the sound. Identifying the source requires further investigation. Agreed.
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Post by feelfree222 on Oct 16, 2006 23:21:21 GMT -4
What about this report of firefighters seen flash flash flash graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html"When I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, .. I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down."
Q. "Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?"
A. "No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me… He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too." [Stephen Gregory - Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)] see chapter 13 or 14 graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110008.PDF
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Post by sts60 on Oct 17, 2006 9:15:47 GMT -4
1. He said he saw flashes in front of the building. Granted, he could have meant "in the front part of the building", but since CTs routinely obsess over every single word they can torture to "support" their ideas, I can be strict in my interpretation.
2. When a building is brought down with controlled demolition, you don't see "flashes" from the explosives, which are inside the building and sized to destroy certain structural members, not simply blow the building apart.
3. "it could have been as a result of the building collapsing..."
4. Most importantly, the "flashes" do nothing to make up the fatal deficits of the "controlled demoltion" claim: no preparation of the building, no evidence for explosives, a collapse inconsistent with controlled demolition, no credible motive, no evidence of such a conspiracy, an environment (fire, impact damage, heavy RF) hostile to the use of demolition charges, and so on.
On to the next round of straw-grasping...
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Post by Bill Thompson on Oct 17, 2006 14:32:02 GMT -4
Someone set us up the bomb! We get Signal:
"How are you Gentlemen. All your Base Are Belong to Us" What you say?
"You have no chance to survive. Make your time. Ha ha ha" (The Great 911 Prophesy)
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Post by sts60 on Oct 17, 2006 15:55:13 GMT -4
Move ZIG. For great justice!
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 17, 2006 15:56:06 GMT -4
The major part of the problem of bombs in the lower structure is that the building simply didn't collapse that way, it was crushed from the top down. When you look ast a CD, the buildings starts to fall from the bottom. If there were bombs in the lower structure they did nothing because the lower part continued to stand unaided until the collapse point hit them.
Something of note. The collapses didn't make it to the ground either. They halted about 7 stories above the ground, if these explosions were at eyelevel for a firefighter to see inside the building, then there really is a problem of them being bombs because they wouldn't have even weakened the structure enough to carry on the collapse to those levels.
I do wonder why you cut out the rather specific information you did as well. Did you not think anyone would check out the context. For those that haven't, I'll post it in total.
He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.
I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building coming down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.
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Post by feelfree222 on Oct 17, 2006 22:58:20 GMT -4
I do wonder why you cut out the rather specific information you did as well. Did you not think anyone would check out the context. For those that haven't, I'll post it in total. In fact I was quoting the text as it appeared on a CT site. I have further experienced problem with my old version of Acrobat Reader as i was trying to download the file from Firefox. If as you think I wanted to hide anything I would have not giving the file location.BTW I dont know if it is possible to quote directly from a PDF file. source here www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.htmlby the way read also Karin Deshore - Captain (E.M.S.)] "Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." [Karin Deshore - Captain (E.M.S.)] www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.html
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Post by feelfree222 on Oct 18, 2006 0:51:00 GMT -4
1. He said he saw flashes in front of the building. Granted, he could have meant "in the front part of the building", but since CTs routinely obsess over every single word they can torture to "support" their ideas, I can be strict in my interpretation. 2. When a building is brought down with controlled demolition, you don't see "flashes" from the explosives, which are inside the building and sized to destroy certain structural members, not simply blow the building apart. wrong ... flashes from the explosives are clearly visible in this video the demolition of the Landmark Tower in Fort Worth, Texas - 3/18/2006 www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/landmark_implosion.wmv
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 18, 2006 1:49:07 GMT -4
In fact I was quoting the text as it appeared on a CT site
Heh. Figures. See why we like primary sources rather then CT sites? If I had a dollar for every half quote and twisted quote given on CT sites, I'd be able to retire to my own private island.
wrong ... flashes from the explosives are clearly visible in this video the demolition of the Landmark Tower in Fort Worth, Texas
Well since the flashes were clearly identified as being outside of the buildings, the point is moot.
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building.
Totally consistant with the building starting to collapse, fire billiowing out of the collapsing floors, then the dust debris billiowing out in clouds as each floor broke and slammed into the next. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that parts of the collapse didn't look like explosions, just saying that not everything that looks or sounds like an explosion is, and not all explosions are caused by deliberately set off explosive charges.
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Post by sts60 on Oct 18, 2006 8:58:43 GMT -4
Fair is fair. There are two flashes of light in this QuickTime video from CNN, the first of which resembles a firework, followed by a more subdued flash. But flashes are not always visible. Sometimes you can see flashes in imagery of explosive demolitions ( J. L. Hudson Dept. Store) and sometimes you can't ( Beirut Hilton). I'll withdraw #2, but the remainder of the observations stand. Moreover, the demolition itself does not resemble the collapse of any of the WTC buildings. Also, before trumpeting the Landmark as evidence, please note that "Workmen worked for weeks to prepare the building. First the smaller surrounding buildings were destroyed and cleared by conventional means. Then the first four floors of the tower were stripped and "weakened" to better control the explosion." (From here.) Funny how the workers in WTC 7 never noticed the first few floors of their building being gutted. I've accepted a correction. When will you do the same?
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Oct 18, 2006 9:55:25 GMT -4
I've accepted a correction. When will you do the same? CTists as a rule never admit to ever being wrong feelfree doesn't seem to be an exception. He (?) tried denying the steel columns from the Windsor Tower (the only part of its frame that was steel) failed after a few hours but never admitted he (?) was wrong.
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Post by freon on Oct 18, 2006 13:50:15 GMT -4
I had heard that the Secret Service keeps caches of weapons around the country in case they are needed quickly in an emmergency. Not sure where I read this but there was supposedly a Secret Service cache in one of the Trade Center buildings.
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