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Post by Grand Lunar on Apr 26, 2007 7:02:10 GMT -4
Amazing and sad, isn't it Gillianren? People like feelfree222 have to invent a world to suite their beliefs, while those (presumably) like you and I can enjoy life to its fullest without creating our own little world of fear. Fear of what?I feel so free that I have no fear at all. Ask Gillian if she is not actually living in fear -and frustration- about a decision made by Bush when he decided to invade Iraq?At which point this have affected her life? You seem to fear what you call Globalists. Don't bother talking about them to me, I'm not interested. Just wanted to drop in and comment. I know what Gillian's fear and frustration is. But it is not related to something she invented in her head, but something real. My sister has similar feelings too. As for me, I too have some fears (though not overpowering ones) and frustrations about other issues Bush and his administration is doing. You probably wouldn't understand, though.
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2007 16:11:09 GMT -4
But why do you worry about globalism? I think that, if done right, it can be a good thing. Sure, the way a lot of it's handled can be bad. However, caring about one's neighbor, even if one's neighbor is in another country, is positive, I thought. The direct effect is we are loosing thousand of jobs. I think that those who are loosing their jobs now know what Globalisation effects are.
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Post by gillianren on Apr 26, 2007 16:16:17 GMT -4
Most of the jobs being lost are awful. However, it's not as though those jobs don't exist anymore. They're being shifted. We lost a Boeing plant in our region--because they moved to, I believe, Texas. Same deal, really.
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2007 16:17:06 GMT -4
As for me, I too have some fears (though not overpowering ones) and frustrations about other issues Bush and his administration is doing. You probably wouldn't understand, though. I am open to heard what you have to say about these other issues Bush and his administration is doing.,and why you have some real fears((though not overpowering ones) and frustations about ?
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2007 16:27:09 GMT -4
Most of the jobs being lost are awful. However, it's not as though those jobs don't exist anymore. They're being shifted. We lost a Boeing plant in our region--because they moved to, I believe, Texas. Same deal, really. But why do you worry about globalism? I think that, if done right, it can be a good thing. Sure, the way a lot of it's handled can be bad. However, caring about one's neighbor, even if one's neighbor is in another country, is positive, I thought. Read this maybe you will understand how much you have been fooled by the Globalization promotors. Researchers report that up to 100,000 U.S. jobs are being lost to China every year findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3739/is_200201/ai_n9072409Contrary to once-high expectations that China's 1.2 billion population would provide an ever-expanding market for U.S. goods, by 2000 the value of goods imported to the U.S. from China exceeded the value of U.S. goods exported to China by a factor of more than 61-resulting in a bilateral trade deficit of $84 billion. Today, the trade deficit with China comprises almost 20% of the total U.S. trade deficit and is the largest trade deficit the U.S. has with any single nation. findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3739/is_200201/ai_n9072409
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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 26, 2007 17:08:11 GMT -4
Industry moving isn't a result of globalisation or a World wide conspriacy, it's a result of the very thing that the US was based on, Capitalisim. When workers in Thailand, China, Indonesia and India are prepared to work for a week's pay that the average US worker wants in a day, when the governments in those countries are offering subsidies and tax incentives for companies to move there and when global transport and instant communications now allow a company to literally be based anywhere in the world, it's very obvious why these companies are going. Yesterday it was announced that one of our biggest manufacturers was moving to Thailand. Why? Because our interest rates and Dollar are high meaning higher loan repayments and less export dollars, our workers are demanding higher wages, and Thailand is offering Tax incentives. That equals a bigger profit for the company, and that is exactly what capitaliism is all about, bigger profits. It's not a conspriacy. It may be greed, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Apr 26, 2007 17:40:06 GMT -4
As for me, I too have some fears (though not overpowering ones) and frustrations about other issues Bush and his administration is doing. You probably wouldn't understand, though. I am open to heard what you have to say about these other issues Bush and his administration is doing.,and why you have some real fears((though not overpowering ones) and frustations about ? Science suppression, support of Creationism/Intelligent Design in schools, short changing NASA of $500 million, ect.
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2007 23:05:15 GMT -4
Industry moving isn't a result of globalisation or a World wide conspriacy, it's a result of the very thing that the US was based on, Capitalisim. When workers in Thailand, China, Indonesia and India are prepared to work for a week's pay that the average US worker wants in a day, when the governments in those countries are offering subsidies and tax incentives for companies to move there and when global transport and instant communications now allow a company to literally be based anywhere in the world, it's very obvious why these companies are going. Yesterday it was announced that one of our biggest manufacturers was moving to Thailand. Why? Because our interest rates and Dollar are high meaning higher loan repayments and less export dollars, our workers are demanding higher wages, and Thailand is offering Tax incentives. That equals a bigger profit for the company, and that is exactly what capitaliism is all about, bigger profits. It's not a conspriacy. It may be greed, but that's a whole other kettle of fish. Without divers free trade agreements put in place by the Globalists which are leaded by these big corporations this will not have happened.Because the old system have tax barrier against abusive importation.Of course the goal of these big corporations was to take advantage of low salaries which these sub -developped countries pay their workers.Thus the suddent "apparition" of the capitalism in these sub-developped countries. tinyurl.com/2to7moFor example APEC What is Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation? APEC's 21 Member Economies are Australia; Brunei Darussalam; Canada; Chile; People's Republic of China; Hong Kong, China; Indonesia; Japan; Republic of Korea; Malaysia; Mexico; New Zealand; Papua New Guinea; Peru; The Republic of the Philippines; The Russian Federation; Singapore; Chinese Taipei; Thailand; United States of America; Viet Nam. www.apec.org/apec/about_apec.htmlSince its inception, APEC has worked to reduce tariffs and other trade barriers across the Asia-Pacific region, creating efficient domestic economies and dramatically increasing exports(mostly from Asian Countries). Remember findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3739/is_200201/ai_n9072409Key to achieving APEC's vision are what are referred to as the 'Bogor Goals' of free and open trade and investment in the Asia-Pacific by 2010 for industrialised economies and 2020 for developing economies. These goals were adopted by Leaders at their 1994 meeting in Bogor, Indonesia.
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2007 23:38:13 GMT -4
I am open to heard what you have to say about these other issues Bush and his administration is doing.,and why you have some real fears((though not overpowering ones) and frustations about ? Science suppression,, short changing NASA of $500 million, ect. And do you have any ideas why there is cut budget in these domains? Hint, maybe because there is a big increase in the military budget ,so they have to cut somewhere. support of Creationism/Intelligent Design in schools Wow ,that one really surprise me.
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 29, 2007 3:57:44 GMT -4
Did you actually read that? I only skimmed it and the author definitely doesn’t back your thesis in fact he debunks and ridicules it, he doesn’t even believe the “Illuminati” still existed in 1789 let alone today (Emphasis mine): By such means, and in such widely diverse and IRRATIONAL ways, the popular belief in the survival of THE DEFUNCT Order of the Illuminati was kept alive and supplied with definite points of attachment; but it remained for the French Revolution, in all the rapidity and vastness of its developments and in the terrifying effects which its more frightful aspects exercised upon its observers, to offer the most exciting suggestions and TO STIMULATE TO THE FREEST PLAY THE IMAGINATIONS OF THOSE WHO WERE ALREADY PERSUADED THAT THE SECRET ASSOCIATIONS THAT PLAGUED BAVARIA STILL LIVED TO TROUBLE THE EARTH,162. THE SUPPOSED POINTS OF CONNECTION between the Order of the Illuminati and the French Revolution were partly tangible, though DECIDEDLY ELUSIVE,163. but much more largely of the nature of theories FRAMED TO MEET THE NECESSITIES OF A CASE WHICH IN THE JUDGMENT OF DILETTANTE HISTORIANS POSITIVELY REQUIRED THE HYPOTHESIS OF A DIABOLICAL CONSPIRACY against thrones and altars (i.e., the civil power and the church), though the labors of Hercules might have to be exceeded in putting the same to paper. Of the EXIGUOUS RESOURCES of interpreters of the Revolution who made serious efforts to trace its impious and anarchical principles and its savage enormities to their lair in the lodges of the Illuminati, the following are PERHAPS THE ONLY ONES WORTHY OF NOTE. [He goes on to summarize the arguments of the aforementioned “exiguous” “dilettante historians” “worthy of note” who “positively required the hypothesis of” Illuminati involvement in the Revolution] AT EVERY POINT THIS FANTASTIC EXPOSITION SUFFERED THE FATAL DEFECT OF A LACK OF HISTORICAL PROOF. Even THE SPECIFIC ASSERTIONS OF ITS INVENTORS which were most necessary to their hypothesis WERE DISPROVED BY THE FACTS brought to light by more cautious and unbiased investigators who followed. E.g., the idea of Mirabeau’s intimate connection with the program of the Order of the Illuminati and his profound faith in it as the best of all instruments for the work of social amelioration IS RENDERED UNTENABLE the moment the rash and unrepublican temper of his spirit is called seriously to mind.176. Again, the real object of Bode’s visit to Paris, a matter of vital importance in the Illuminati-French Revolution hypothesis, was not to communicate Illuminism to French Freemasons, but to attend an assembly of representatives of the Philalèthes,… <snip> The much more important contention that the Illuminati were instrumental in starting the French Revolution, SHOWS A LACK OF HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE THAT EITHER LEAVES OUT OF ACCOUNT OR OBSCURES THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, POLITICAL, AND RELIGIOUS CAUSES, TANGIBLE AND OVERT, THOUGH COMPLEX, THAT RENDERED THE REVOLUTION INEVITABLE. Yet THE LEGEND OF ILLUMINISM AS THE RESPONSIBLE AUTHOR OF THE FRENCH REVOLUTIOn found numerous vindicators and interpreters,180. to the efforts of two of which, because of their intimate relation to the interests of the investigation in hand, our attention in the remainder of this chapter is to be confined. The frequency at which CT’s cite sources that actually contradict them is quite surprising Yes it debunks it. That is the interesting part. Lets see if the author get the facts straight. Here are the facts that your author ignore. Exerpts from www.thegeorgiaguidestones.com/Part_1.htmIt was in 1784 that Weishaupt issued his orders for the French Revolution. A German writer, named Zweig, put it into book form. It contained the entire Illuminati story and Weishaupt's plans. A copy of this book was sent to the Illuminists in France headed by Robespierre whom Weishaupt had delegated to foment the French Revolution. The courier was struck and killed by lightening as he rode through Rawleston on his way from Frankfurt to Paris. The police found the subversive documents on his body and turned them over to the proper authorities. After a careful study of the plot; the Bavarian government ordered the police to raid Weishaupt's newly organized Lodges of the "Grand Orient" and the homes of his most influential associates. All additional evidence thus discovered convinced the authorities that the documents were genuine copies of the conspiracy by which the Illuminati planned to use wars and revolutions to bring about the establishment of a one-world government; the powers of which they, headed by the Rothschilds, intended to usurp as soon as it was established, exactly in line with the United Nations' plot of today. In 1785, the Bavarian government outlawed the Illuminati and closed the Lodges of the "Grand Orient." In 1786; they published all the details of the conspiracy. The English title of that publication is: "The Original Writings of the Order and the Sect of the Illuminati." Copies of the entire conspiracy were sent to all the heads of church and state in Europe. But the power of the Illuminati, which was actually the power of the Rothschilds, was so great that this warning was ignored. Nevertheless; the Illuminati became a dirty word and it went underground.
At the same time, Weishaupt ordered Illuminists to infiltrate into the Lodges of "Blue Masonry" and formed their own secret societies within all secret societies. Only Masons who proved themselves internationalists and those whose conduct proved they had defected from God were initiated into the Illuminati. Thenceforth; the conspirators donned the cloak of philanthropy and humanitarianism to conceal their revolutionary and subversive activities. In order to infiltrate into Masonic Lodges in Britain; Weishaupt invited John Robison over to Europe. Robison was a high degree Mason in the "Scottish Rite." He was a professor of natural philosophy at Edinburgh University and Secretary of the Royal Society of Edinburgh. Robison did not fall for the lie that the objective of the Illuminati was to create a benevolent dictatorship; but he kept his reactions to himself so well that he was entrusted with a copy of Weishaupt's revised conspiracy for study and safekeeping. Anyway; because the heads of state and church in France were deluded into ignoring the warnings given them; the revolution broke out in 1789 as scheduled by Weishaupt. In order to alert other governments to their danger, in 1798, Robison published a book entitled: "Proof of a Conspiracy to Destroy all Governments and Religions" but his warnings were ignored exactly as our American people have been ignoring all warnings about the United Nations and the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). Now here is something that will stun and very likely outrage many who hear this; but there is documentary proof that our own Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton became students of Weishaupt. Jefferson was one of Weishaupt's strongest defenders when he was outlawed by his government and it was Jefferson who infiltrated the Illuminati into the then newly organized lodges of the "Scottish Rite" in New England. Here is the proof. In 1789; John Robison warned all Masonic leaders in America that the Illuminati had infiltrated into their lodges and on July 19, 1789; David Papen, President of Harvard University, issued the same warning to the graduating class and lectured them on how the influence of Illuminism was acquitting on American politics and religion, and to top it off; John Quincy Adams, who had organized the New England Masonic Lodges, issued his warnings. Adams wrote three letters to Colonel William L. Stone, a top Mason, in which he exposed how Jefferson was using Masonic lodges for subversive Illuministic purposes. Those three letters are at this very time in Whittenburg Square Library in Philadelphia. In short; Jefferson, founder of the Democratic Party, was a member of the Illuminati which at least partly accounts for the condition of the party at this time and through infiltration of the Republican Party; we have exactly nothing of loyal Americanism today.
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Post by gillianren on Apr 29, 2007 4:59:15 GMT -4
Got evidence?
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 29, 2007 15:09:18 GMT -4
The Original Writings of the Order and the Sect of the Illuminati which were seized In 1785 by the Bavarian government are still available they are actually in a museum in Germany...but I doubt you will make the trip to read them in the German language. But there is something you can verify by yourself In 1789; John Robison warned all Masonic leaders in America that the Illuminati had infiltrated into their lodges and on July 19, 1789; David Papen, President of Harvard University, issued the same warning to the graduating class and lectured them on how the influence of Illuminism was acquitting on American politics and religion, and to top it off; John Quincy Adams, who had organized the New England Masonic Lodges, issued his warnings. Adams wrote three letters to Colonel William L. Stone, a top Mason, in which he exposed how Jefferson was using Masonic lodges for subversive Illuministic purposes. Those three letters are at this very time in Whittenburg Square Library in PhiladelphiaRemember that the debunkers claim that the Illuminatis mouvement was dead in 1789 . These tree letters demonstrate that was not the case The context Now here is something that will stun and very likely outrage many who hear this; but there is documentary proof that our own Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton became students of Weishaupt. Jefferson was one of Weishaupt's strongest defenders when he was outlawed by his government and it was Jefferson who infiltrated the Illuminati into the then newly organized lodges of the "Scottish Rite" in New England. Here is the proof. In 1789; John Robison warned all Masonic leaders in America that the Illuminati had infiltrated into their lodges and on July 19, 1789; David Papen, President of Harvard University, issued the same warning to the graduating class and lectured them on how the influence of Illuminism was acquitting on American politics and religion, and to top it off; John Quincy Adams, who had organized the New England Masonic Lodges, issued his warnings. Adams wrote three letters to Colonel William L. Stone, a top Mason, in which he exposed how Jefferson was using Masonic lodges for subversive Illuministic purposes. Those three letters are at this very time in Whittenburg Square Library in Philadelphia
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Apr 29, 2007 16:25:24 GMT -4
LOL There is no "Whittenburg Square" or "Whittenburg Square Library" in Philadelphia. tinyurl.com/ypc4ke tinyurl.com/24s99o Nor it seems is there a "Whittenburg Square Library" or "Whittenburg Square anywhere else in the world tinyurl.com/29ebrdThe problem with you feelfree222 is that you seeming accept uncritically anything that supports your preconcived notions.
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Post by BertL on Apr 29, 2007 16:39:41 GMT -4
LOL There is no "Whittenburg Square" or "Whittenburg Square Library" in Philadelphia. tinyurl.com/ypc4ke tinyurl.com/24s99o Nor it seems is there a "Whittenburg Square Library" anywhere else That's what they WANT you to think.
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Post by gillianren on Apr 29, 2007 16:51:41 GMT -4
I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it's yet another misspelling--"Wittenberg," like in Hamlet. But I don't know that it means there's a library with that spelling, either, because I want evidence of the conflation between "Illuminati" and "Mason," and I doubt it's forthcoming.
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