ROME anyone?

[Ginnie]

Lately, I've been watching the great U.S./British/Italian TV series ROME.
Per usual, when I get interested in a subject it starts dominating my reading time, so as as result I've taken out my roman history books: Those Were the Romans, Roman Reader, As the Romans Did, Life and Leisure in Ancient Rome and A History of Rome.
It is really interesting, especially learning about daily life - what they ate, how they traded, how they were educated, military duty etc.
The more I learn, the more they become real people instead of just names in the history books.

I'm going to a few coin shows this summer and want to pick up a few Roman coins. Anyone on this board collect? I just have a couple right now - late emperor, inflation times coins. Not worth anything, but just holding it in my hand, realizing that it's 1600 years old makes it worth something to me. I'd be interesting in any good advice on collecting - mind you I have a very limited budget, also any hints on cleaning them up without damaging them. I know that is hard to do, from what I've read you should leave the coins alone.

So anything "Rome" related can post in this thread.

[LunarOrbit]

I've been watching Rome too. It's a great show.

[Ginnie]

May 27, 2008 19:04:05 GMT -4 LunarOrbit said:

I've been watching Rome too. It's a great show.

The only minor 'fault' I can find is that they have to compress events over many years into seemingly months or even weeks to provide a smooth flow for the storytelling. And in the last episode, it seemed like Antony was in Egypt then all of a sudden in Rome - in reality it would have taken a few months to travel that distance. But that's to be expected in a TV show. .
And when are Lucius Vorenus's children ever going to start aging?
I haven't seen the whole series yet - I'm in the middle of season two, but I think it ends after Octavian (Augustus) defeats Antony and returns to Rome.

[LunarOrbit]

You must be watching it on History Television like me.

I'm far from an expert on Roman history, but I'm sure they have altered details for dramatic purposes. Atia (the mother of Octavius) never had a relationship with Marc Anthony, for example. Still, it's fun to watch and has peaked my interest in the subject. It's two bad it was canceled after two seasons... it was really expensive to produce.

[tedward]

I did enjoy the series. Fortunately one of the terrestrial channels carried it over here, no satellite dish on my house out of choice. On my list to get among other things (DVD that is).

Re traveling and the portrayal in films, next scene 3 months later etc. Many of the books I read have this to some extent. For example, after Trafalgar they had to send a message of the victory and death. They did not chronicle the events of the messenger in the book I read much as they did not dwell on the chase around the Caribbean.

If you ever get a chance to go there, history right in front of you.

[Al Johnston]

I have the DVDs, the series makes an interesting comparison to I, Clavdivs.

There was certainly a lot of compression and simplification of events, but that's probably justified in terms of being able to get the story told. It does mean that Marcus Agrippa gets a little underplayed however, which is a shame: Augustus would have been hard-pressed to do what he did without him.

The Plebeians' eye view presented by the series is fascinating, although a good deal of it must be conjectural.

[PhantomWolf]

Shame it's been cancelled.

[Ginnie]

May 28, 2008 17:10:22 GMT -4 PhantomWolf said:

Shame it's been cancelled.

It's just too exspensive to produce. You need a lot of viewers to justify that.

In reality it seems that Atia of the Julii was actually a very good person, and Servilia of the Julii was not so nice. I was told by a friend that she had two servants crucified when they mildly mistreated Brutus (in her opinion) when he was a child, but I haven't checked this out yet.

I find it interesting that there were so few forenames used by the Roman upper classes - about 18 names will cover just about everybody:
A Aulus
C Gaius (c was pronounced 'G'. Later it was pronounced 'K' and they added a stroke through C to make G)
Cn Gnaeus
D Decimus
K Kaeso
L Lucius
M Marcus
M' Manius
Mam Mamercus
P Publius
Q Quintus
S Sextus
Ser Servius
Sp Spurius
T Titus
Ti Tiberius

[Ginnie]

More trivia:

The Roman day was broken up into 12 hrs of daylight and 12 hours of night.
Thus in the summer, there would be 12 hrs of daylight between 4:30 a.m. and 7:30 p.m. - lasting a little over an hour each. In winter there would be twelve hours of daylight between 7:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m, thus each hour of daylight would last only about about forty minutes. Odd.
Oh, and as a result of this, the after lunch siesta was dropped during the winter months, because of course the day was over and it was getting dark.

Also, once the Senate proposed that slaves should wear different clothes from Roman citizens, so you could tell them apart. They quickly realized that it could get real dangerous if the slaves could see how few free men there really were.

And in Rome (the city) , you would be considered 'poor' if you had less than four slaves. Some Romans had thousands, up to 20,000 in fact - of course most of them would be working on farms or similar work. One senator did have 400 slaves in his house alone.

Being a slave was a rough life if you worked on a farm or in the mines. Under the law, you could whip, torture, brand, mutilate or crucify your slave.Eventually, it was realized that if you treat your slave good, he is happier and does better work. So in time a slave could keep any money he has earned, take a wife and raise children and even buy his freedom.
Senaca said, "People say, 'They are slaves', but I say that they are men , like us. 'Slaves' they say. No, they are our humble friends....Remember this, that the man you call your slave comes from the same species, enjoys the same sky, and breathes, lives and dies exactly as you do. You can imagine him to be a free man, he can imagine you a slave..."



Oh, and Servilia of the Julii didn't have an affair with Octavia, but Antony did in fact marry Octavia, but divorced her (sort of) because of Cleopatra.
Surprisingly, after his death, Octavia did take care of Antony's children by Fulvia and Cleopatra.
I'm surprised that Antony's affair with Cleopatra had huge ramifications.
"This affront to Octavia may be regarded as the turning point in the relations between the triumvirs (Antony, Octavian and the general Lepidus). Octavian, who habitually sacrificed family sentiment to considerations of policy, might have condoned the supper session of Octavia by another Roman wife; but her rejection in favour aof an alien seducer hurt his Roman pride."
A History of Rome, M.Cary and H.H. Scullard

[Al Johnston]

May 28, 2008 17:39:31 GMT -4 Ginnie said:

I find it interesting that there were so few forenames used by the Roman upper classes - about 18 names will cover just about everybody:
A Aulus
C Gaius (c was pronounced 'G'. Later it was pronounced 'K' and they added a stroke through C to make G)
Cn Gnaeus
D Decimus
K Kaeso
L Lucius
M Marcus
M' Manius
Mam Mamercus
P Publius
Q Quintus
S Sextus
Ser Servius
Sp Spurius
T Titus
Ti Tiberius

Quintus & Sextus meant fifth & sixth: names given by birth order

[parker]

Hello Ginnie, it amazed me recently that where I live (in Devon, part of the South West peninsula of England) they have last year just discovered two Roman forts/settlements. One of which is just behind my old high school in Exeter, the other in Cornwall, where it was always thought that the Romans had not bothered to settle (leaving it to the barbarian British tribes).
What I find so exciting is that such a well researched period of history is still surprising archaeologists. Apparently the fort in Cornwall is completely bloody obvious to any antiquarian, clear ditches and ramparts, but nobody had taken proper note because conventional thought had limited the Roman expansion further East.
makes me want to grub about in the dirt for treasure.

[Ginnie]

May 29, 2008 6:20:38 GMT -4 parker said:

Hello Ginnie, it amazed me recently that where I live (in Devon, part of the South West peninsula of England) they have last year just discovered two Roman forts/settlements. One of which is just behind my old high school in Exeter, the other in Cornwall, where it was always thought that the Romans had not bothered to settle (leaving it to the barbarian British tribes).
What I find so exciting is that such a well researched period of history is still surprising archaeologists. Apparently the fort in Cornwall is completely bloody obvious to any antiquarian, clear ditches and ramparts, but nobody had taken proper note because conventional thought had limited the Roman expansion further East.
makes me want to grub about in the dirt for treasure.

Well the Romans occupied England for about four hundred years, so they certainly had permanent dwellings -
London (ium) itself was founded by the Romans. And they brought their culture and law to Britain (Britannica). London had a population of about 60,000 in 200 A.D. I'm sure there are still some Roman coins around buried that you could dig up. There are buildings in Britain that are still around today from Roman times.
The term 'Briton' refers to a Roman in England. Latin was used in England for over a thousand years.

Here's a book about buildings in Roman Britain:
www.amazon.co.uk/Buildings-Roman-Britain-Guy-Bedoyere/dp/0752419064

[Al Johnston]

Wallsend Metro station has signage in Latin

[dinsmore]

How very cultured.

The Romans were ahead of us in many things, not least Beware of the Dog signs.

penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/miscellanea/canes/molossian.html

[Ginnie]

May 29, 2008 10:08:34 GMT -4 dinsmore said:

How very cultured.

The Romans were ahead of us in many things, not least Beware of the Dog signs.

penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/miscellanea/canes/molossian.html

That tell it all doesn't it? Life hasn't changed that much. My neighbour has a "Beware of Dog" sign, but he doesn't have a dog.

This one was painted on the walls of a house in Pompeii:
"Keep your lascivious looks and bedroom eyes away from another man's wife. Maintain a semblance of decency on your face. Be sociable and put aside, if you can, annoying quarrels. If you can't, go back to your own home"

And some politcal slogans:
"The petty thieves urge you to elect Vatia aedile."

"Elect Gaius Julius Polybius aedile. He supplies good bread."

"All the late sleepers urge you to elect Vatia aedile"

"Let anyone who oposes the election of Quintius go sit by an ass!"