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Post by echnaton on Feb 5, 2009 16:51:42 GMT -4
Wouldn't that be the Apollo Legume?
Yes there is one in every crowd.
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Feb 5, 2009 18:55:43 GMT -4
Wouldn't that be the Apollo Legume? Yes there is one in every crowd. I had the same thought, but peanuts unless I can find a famous actual nut logo, I am stuck with a non-nut nut. Tut tut, but that's that.
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 5, 2009 21:14:06 GMT -4
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 6, 2009 0:42:18 GMT -4
Okay, that's just bizzare.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Feb 6, 2009 8:25:48 GMT -4
I have a phrase that could be used;
"You call me a NASA stooge as if it's a bad thing."
How's that?
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Post by dwight on Feb 6, 2009 11:01:16 GMT -4
I have straydog02 insisting, absolutely INSISTING, that the world saw Gus Grissom's MR-04 flight live on TV, a closeup on his face showing it "distorted with g-forces" and him "freaking out" during his actual flight. I pointed out that the pilot observation cameras in the Mercury cameras were film, and the Liberty Bell sank with camera and film before being recovered, but no, he insists. After all, his parents saw it and they wouldn't lie.
If that's what he believes, then it might be a shock to him to be told that archival tapes exist of the TV transmissions during the flights which defy his parents' recollection. My parents watched it live to, and they certainly wouldn't lie either. So who is right. I'm betting the logger tapes. You can argue Apollo to death as no-one can corroborate your claims however stupid, but filed and logged tapes from independant TV stations are verifiable.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 6, 2009 12:43:30 GMT -4
I very often come up against situations in which people's recollection is simply wrong. Setting aside for a moment that this is straydog we're talking about, the coherent manufactured rendition of some memory is as real as any factual memory. While externally we highly value truth over supposition or inference, elements of the brain apparently do not. The brain's need to create a coherent experience out of apparently contradictory or unordered memories produces "memories" that simply may not correspond to fact. Here the onboard film is being placed in its "proper" sequence, reinforced by modern visual retellings that do that by means of editing.
But of course the real question here is that of appropriately verifying fact. "That's what I remember, and why would i lie?" is an appeal to motive when there ought to be an appeal to objectively recorded fact. We rely on human memory when it's the best evidence we have. There are better (i.e., more reliable) forms of evidence; and they trump memory where available.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Feb 6, 2009 13:00:00 GMT -4
Through my 50+ years on this planet I've come to realize one undeniable fact -- memories are notoriously unreliable. There have been several times when my memory of an event was so clear in my mind that I would have sworn it happened a certain way, only to later discover through other evidence that that my memory was incorrect.
When people swear up one side and down the other that they remember something "like it was yesterday", I have to take their testimony with a grain of salt. When other evidence contradicts the memory, I have to discount the reliability of the memory and go with the other evidence.
Someone who remembers seeing live TV of Gus Grissom during his MR-04 flight may very well remember it that way. The memory may even be vivid in their mind, but the recollection could also be very false. They may be remembering part of another event, or creating a false memory that is a collage of many different memories.
I certainly can't fault people for remembering things incorrectly - it's only human. I do fault people for pigheadedly clinging to a memory when other evidence clearly indicates the memory to be false. I think younger people may have a hard time realizing how false memories can be simply because they haven't had much experience with it yet in their lives.
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Post by Ginnie on Feb 6, 2009 14:53:20 GMT -4
I remember things that happened to me when I was young - only to find out by others that it actually happened to somebody else.
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Post by gillianren on Feb 6, 2009 15:42:50 GMT -4
I have a clear and vivid memory in my head of images of Ronald Reagan's funeral. Which is reasonable--I watched a lot of CNN that week. The thing is, though, that I remember it happening back in the '90s, too. I don't know where this memory came from, but I believed for at least a year that it was real and was genuinely surprised to find out he was still alive.
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Post by nomuse on Feb 6, 2009 15:45:40 GMT -4
I've actually been able to detect the process of conflation going on in my own skull. I'll try to remember details of a movie I saw once, and I'll make what I know is a guess about some element, and then I'll feel the whole scene appearing bit by bit in my mind, camera angles and dialog and everything....and then I'll put the kibosh by backing up and recalling some detail that puts the lie to that specific element being in that particular movie. And I'll watch that manufactured memory fade into nothingness again.
Seeing how easy that is to happen, and how detailed and convincing the results, I am filled with a renewed understanding of just how much of my memories, and even my current perceptions, are confabulations and imagined details.
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Post by echnaton on Feb 6, 2009 16:21:58 GMT -4
One of the tricks my memory has played on me happened when recalling something that happened some time back. My memory was disputed by another person that was at the event also. he had some photos that showed my recollection to be in error. From that point onward, any recollection included the new information. If I played back the memory in my head, the picture included what I had seen in the photos.
It was a somewhat humbling but very valuable experience and because of that I now trust my "visual playback" memory far less than the more verbal memories.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Feb 6, 2009 18:04:50 GMT -4
After having burnt a few times by false memories, I gotten to the point that, no matter how well I think I remember something, I always leave open the possibility I could be wrong.
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Post by PeterB on Feb 7, 2009 10:56:36 GMT -4
Bob B. said:
*Hoax Believer* Aha! So you admit that straydog's parents were right! /*Hoax Believer*
Sorry. Just seeing if I can still do HB "logic".
G'day all.
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Post by dwight on Feb 7, 2009 13:59:36 GMT -4
Bob B. said: *Hoax Believer* Aha! So you admit that straydog's parents were right! /*Hoax Believer* Sorry. Just seeing if I can still do HB "logic". G'day all. If I may offer some help, Peterb as you seem to be rusty in your HB Logic 101 theory. It should read like this: "Aha so you do admit that Armstrong has lied even before he was involved in the A11 sham because straydogs parents would never lie about seeing Gus live during his flight!" I'm afraid you had not enough off-tagentness in your HB mode to qualify it as authentic.
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