raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Oct 2, 2008 21:45:06 GMT -4
What kind of radiation shielding did the LEK have? I mentioned to the indomitable 1plus8 that the Luna 10 orbiter had a radiation detector ,and yet they didn't cancel the manned Lunar program then and their. His response was to ask how thick was the walls of the soviet lunar module, a reasonable question for the most part.
Does anyone know?
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Post by Count Zero on Oct 2, 2008 23:35:30 GMT -4
If he wants to argue that the LK had more shielding, then tell him to look it up.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 2, 2008 23:36:59 GMT -4
LEK? You mean the LK or the LOK? The LK was the Soviet Lander and wasn't much more than an aluminium bubble or a Tea kettle  The LOK was the orbiter, and that was just a Soyuz capsule slightly elongated and with the solar panels removed and fuel cells added instead. (sorry no photos of an actual LOK seem to still exist and none of the LOKs do either.  ) |
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Oct 3, 2008 0:24:21 GMT -4
Sorry yeah, I meant the LK. Darn Spell checks.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 3, 2008 14:13:44 GMT -4
Well to be honest, there is little need for Radiation shielding in either the LK or the LM, they are merely the landers, the crew spent very little time in them at all. The worse part of the trip from the Earth to the Moon (and back) was the passage through the VA Belts and at that time the Apollo crews were all (even for 13) in the CM and the Soviet crews, had they gone, would have been in their LOK. Before gettingt into how much the LK had I'd get into why it would need any at all.
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Post by dragonblaster on Oct 27, 2008 4:23:43 GMT -4
Surely the LOK would have needed ten feet of lead-osmium shielding to get through the lethal Van Allen Belts, that turn bodies into radioactive sludge in microseconds?
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 27, 2008 5:18:08 GMT -4
I know you were being silly, but the LOK was merely a modified Soyuz capsule, elongated to give the crew more room and with the solar panels removed and fuel cells added for power instead. It had no more, or less protection than the standard Soyuz capsules, or the Zond craft, which again were basically slightly modifided Soyuz craft, and which of cause took live specimens in a translunar pass and recover on Zond 5 to determine radiation effects of the journey. The Soviets had pretty good data to believe that no excess shielding above that of the capsule hull was required.
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Post by dragonblaster on Oct 27, 2008 7:37:39 GMT -4
I knew about the live cargo on Zond 5. When I pointed this out to an HB, he just snapped back "Fruitflies and turtles are not human beings!"  The Soviet cheap-and cheerful approach here always looks to me like a desperate last throw of the dice. Even the mighty N1 booster had a lot of cut corners (hence the 3 launch failures). The very last throw of the dice, of course, was Luna 15. It amuses me that the chapter narrative of that title in Andrew Chaikin's book A Man On The Moon consists solely of the single word, "Crashed." |
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Post by Grand Lunar on Oct 27, 2008 7:57:46 GMT -4
I remember on HB commented that the particular species of turtle used in the Zond missions is one that is very resistent to radiation. Even managed to post a link to a science article to confirm the claim.
The HB said this shows that the survival of the organisms on the Zond missions isn't proof that humans could survive too.
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Post by JayUtah on Oct 27, 2008 10:06:30 GMT -4
Yes, and some Geiger counters employ filter plates that are very resistant to radiation, yet manage to tell their operators a great deal about the radiation environment to which they are exposed. The Zond 5 mission carried more than just turtles; turtles happened to be the most complex organism on the flight. The point was to investigate the effects of radiation, not simply to prove that living creatures can survive. The variety of organisms was meant to establish a variety of responses.
Could the guy post any links to science articles confirming that the Van Allen belts are lethal to humans in a spaceship?
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Post by dragonblaster on Oct 27, 2008 12:33:33 GMT -4
Especially if, as has been posted thousands of times on hundreds of forums (fora?), you go pretty much through one of the holes, going at 25,000 mph and just clipping the inner (less dangerous) ring while sitting in a metal container.
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Post by JayUtah on Oct 27, 2008 13:28:26 GMT -4
My point was more about being willing to do research, but only on one side of the issue. Someone who will investigate the radiation hardiness of some random turtle species is obviously no stranger to the library. So why not look up some real information on the Van Allen belts and the science of cislunar radiation surveys?
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 27, 2008 17:50:16 GMT -4
My point was more about being willing to do research, but only on one side of the issue. Someone who will investigate the radiation hardiness of some random turtle species is obviously no stranger to the library. So why not look up some real information on the Van Allen belts and the science of cislunar radiation surveys? Because it's all written by the evil NASA and they're lying about it so why bother to read up on their lies when it's obvious that radiation is deadly in any quantity and thus it's impossible to fly through the belts no matter what the lairs at NASA claim. Duh! |
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