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Post by zvezdichko on Dec 7, 2008 10:37:49 GMT -4
Yesterday I met a coleague of mine in the University of Sofia. We had a short conversation about spaceflight. Then he told me that we can't trust the agencies because we never walked on the Moon. I started to explain to him that the Moon hoax theory is very silly and I told him that there's a lot of independent evidence about the Apollo mission. He told me then that the Van Allen belts are dangerous and the astronauts can't pass through them  Can you imagine? He's a molecular biologist and he should have knowledge about radiation and its effects! Finally I asked him: You are a molecular biologist, what about all these scientific articles in journals, peer review? Despite the fact he was unable to give me a brief answer, he told me that it's impossible and continued to claim that Apollo astronauts never made it to the moon. I was very angry ... and guess what? I said to him: "You're a f*({ing conspiracy nut, a narrow thinker and you are unworthy to science"... This made him mad. Hahahaa! |
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Post by Count Zero on Dec 7, 2008 11:44:42 GMT -4
I was very angry ... and guess what? I said to him: "You're a f*({ing conspiracy nut, a narrow thinker and you are unworthy to science"...
The first thing would have been uppermost in my mind, but the second & third items are more devastating and effective. You have good presence-of-mind.
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Post by zvezdichko on Dec 7, 2008 11:53:29 GMT -4
Actually, I was asked the following question (In BAUT forum):
I understand your frustration, but do you think the name-calling was an effective argument? If your goal might be to nudge your colleague toward improved critical-thinking skills, this doesn't seem like a good tactic.
My answer is:
Actually, I tried to explain to him why we no longer fly to the Moon - for the same reason we don't fly at supersonic speed, the same reason we don't travel to Challenger Deep. I explained to him that the lunar rocks are absolutely unique and they can't be faked. I told him about zap holes, about people watching TLI burns. I told him that many people watched the launches and the craft went to somewhere and it was not LEO, because a lot of people would have seen it.
He refused to listen and continued claiming that we never went to the Moon. What do you expect to do? To say "Bravo!"? I was angry, too. And that's why I told him that he's a nut and a narrow thinker.
Actually, the Moon Hoax is a different case. It has nothing to do with a cultural difference. Thousands of sensitive people working on the project Apollo, some of them risking their lives... for what? I feel saddened by the fact there are people who malign other's work. These brave men are being called cowards, liars, thieves. I don't know why such "cultural vandals" exist.
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Post by Ginnie on Dec 7, 2008 13:27:20 GMT -4
That perhaps is what irritates me most of all.
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Post by sts60 on Dec 8, 2008 12:31:43 GMT -4
He told me then that the Van Allen belts are dangerous and the astronauts can't pass through them Can you imagine? He's a molecular biologist and he should have knowledge about radiation and its effects!You could also point out to him that astronauts/cosmonauts routinely pass through part of the Van Allen belts, due to the South Atlantic Anomaly. Or that James Van Allen himself helped NASA design the Apollo trajectories, and has specifically repudiated the silly claim that the belts prevent travel to the Moon. You could also ask him why all the space physicists and space engineers accept the reality of Apollo. Or why all the world's geosynchronous communications, weather, and surveillance satellite operators don't spill the big story, since if the VABs were so lethal in contradiction of NASA's data, their satellites would be dying right and left. Or why Russia, China, India, Japan and the Europeans haven't spilled the truth, since they have all sent probes to or past the Moon. But I don't think it will do any good. You should probably just tell him you feel sorry for him - sorry that he feels the need to deny one of mankind's greatest triumphs - and leave it at that.
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Post by zvezdichko on Dec 9, 2008 9:21:32 GMT -4
Thanks, sts-60.
By the way, somebody at BAUT told me that you work for shuttle missions. Is that true? Can you tell me why so many people think that NASA is a top secret agency, when it's actually very open to public, compared to China or the Soviet space program, for example?
We have thousands of data - Mars photos, Lunar photos, ISS photos... despite all that proof, some people think that NASA is involved in all sort of conspiracy stuff. Why?
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Post by Mr Gorsky on Dec 9, 2008 10:29:13 GMT -4
Thanks, sts-60. By the way, somebody at BAUT told me that you work for shuttle missions. Is that true? Can you tell me why so many people think that NASA is a top secret agency, when it's actually very open to public, compared to China or the Soviet space program, for example? We have thousands of data - Mars photos, Lunar photos, ISS photos... despite all that proof, some people think that NASA is involved in all sort of conspiracy stuff. Why? I imagine it is because it funded by the US Gubmint ... which as we all "know" is the most evil on the planet and lies about everything.  |
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Post by echnaton on Dec 9, 2008 11:03:14 GMT -4
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Post by sts60 on Dec 9, 2008 14:12:38 GMT -4
Thanks, sts-60.
By the way, somebody at BAUT told me that you work for shuttle missions. Is that true?
I worked on a few Shuttle missions, i.e., as part of the team flying a Shuttle-deployed and retrieved satellite. I spent considerable time at CCAFS/KSC and JSC, working with NASA and contractor personnel, but I have not worked directly for NASA.
Can you tell me why so many people think that NASA is a top secret agency, when it's actually very open to public, compared to China or the Soviet space program, for example?
Because it's part of the eeevil gummint. All parts of the gummint are top secret as well as eeevil - NASA, CIA, NSA, DoD, the Federal Highway Commission, you name it. It's all one seamless, monolithic entity.
We have thousands of data - Mars photos, Lunar photos, ISS photos... despite all that proof, some people think that NASA is involved in all sort of conspiracy stuff. Why?
Because, to put it bluntly, a lot of people are ignorant, paranoid, and too lazy to learn anything that requires more effort than surfing the Web.
But, with so much useful and valid material online these days, even that last is no excuse. Conspiracists want to believe this stuff. It gives them, perversely enough, a sense of order - the bad guys (gummint, the Illuminati, industry, whatever) vs. the good guys (themselves, clicking away on CT web sites). It makes them feel smarter than all the sheeplike suckers who actually believe we landed on the Moon, as well as all those smartypants scientists and engineers. (Only in CT Bizarro-world is actual expertise regarded with suspicion and alarm.)
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Post by zvezdichko on Dec 9, 2008 14:23:15 GMT -4
Yeah, this is a well-known syndrome... The hardcore hahos actually believe that all governments (I prefer that word rather than gubmint) are all the same and a large powerful group stands behind them. Welcome to the circus. Prepare for the New World Order!  |
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Post by laurel on Dec 9, 2008 20:21:23 GMT -4
Can you tell me why so many people think that NASA is a top secret agency, when it's actually very open to public, compared to China or the Soviet space program, for example? Of course, China and the Soviet space program have conspiracy theories associated with them too, like that eerie "lost cosmonauts" theory. I agree with Sts-60 about people being too lazy to do research. Zvezdichko, have you encountered any hoax believers yet who say Neil Armstrong refuses to be interviewed about Apollo 11? People will offer this as evidence of a hoax even though there are interviews with him that can be easily read or watched online. The hoax believers haven't bothered to look for them.  |
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Post by Data Cable on Dec 9, 2008 21:11:11 GMT -4
have you encountered any hoax believers yet who say Neil Armstrong refuses to be interviewed about Apollo 11? People will offer this as evidence of a hoax even though there are interviews with him that can be easily read or watched online. The hoax believers haven't bothered to look for them. Hasn't at least one particularly lazy HB said as much in an Amazon review or IMDb thread about a documentary in which Armstrong is interviewed? |
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Post by laurel on Dec 9, 2008 21:59:06 GMT -4
I don't know. I remember an HB saying that Michael Collins refused to be interviewed on the IMDb board for In The Shadow Of The Moon even though Collins is the first astronaut who speaks in that film. |
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Post by tedward on Dec 10, 2008 6:45:49 GMT -4
I can't help thinking of the odd one or two that I knew in school. There was always someone who claimed to have special knowledge of something that nobody else knew about. This of course was before computers and the internet being what it is today. As they grew older they claimed down the pub that they knew someone in the SAS and told strange tales about it with awe in their eyes and a nod and a wink and tap the side of your nose, yeah, they do things you have never heard of.......... . I bet all pubs in the UK have a few of them. For me it seemed odd that as I grew up with them I never met the ones that went on to instant SASship.
And now with the interweb, wow, must be paradise to get these claims out.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Dec 10, 2008 8:22:35 GMT -4
I've seen examples of this many times!
And it doesn't stop there.
CTs also apply this to 9/11, JFK, Pearl Harbor, ect.
At least one CT also applies this to the Intelligent Design VS. Evolution arguement. In HIS world, ID has been scientifically proven.
The burn!
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Can you imagine? He's a molecular biologist and he should have knowledge about radiation and its effects!
