Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 21, 2009 8:34:50 GMT -4
The film in the camera according to Kodak melts at 150 degrees
Factually incorrect. The film emulsions were placed on an ESTAR polyester film base. The melting point of ESTAR is 490° F, although some shrinkage and distortion can occur at around 200° F.
the moon is 250 plus at high noon when they supposedly where filming.
Factually incorret. The astronauts were not filming at high noon, the were filming during lunar morning. Furthermore, the stated temperature is the maximum surface temperature of the Moon. What relevance does the surface temperature have on the film issue?
The film in uncooled cameras would melt.
Factually incorrect. The film would not melt under the stated temperature and the cameras were kept well below this temperature by utilizing passive thermal control measures, i.e. making the bodies white to reflect solar energy.
The gloves at 4psi could not be used to change a camera!
Factually incorrect. How the gloves were manufactured and how the cameras were modified is well documented. There is plenty of video evidence showing the astronauts operating the cameras and other tools.
Claims like these I always find utterly ridiculous. If the astronauts really couldn't operate the cameras, don't you think it would be a pretty simple matter to engineer a camera that could be operated? Does your friend really think a camera is some sort of show stopper?
The soviets are big liars themselves.
The Soviets don't exist anyone, but yes, they were big liars about some things. However, what they lied about and what they told the truth about is verifiable by studying the evidence. What specifically does your friend think they lied about?
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Post by grmcdorman on Jul 21, 2009 9:38:46 GMT -4
Dave Scott, Apollo 15. Active Christian. Left a small red-covered Bible leaning against the joy-stick of the rover after parking it for the last time. It can be seen in AS15-88-11901. kiwi, your link is incorrect; it points to AS11-40-5882HR.jpg. The correct link is AS15-88-11901.
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Post by ineluki on Jul 21, 2009 10:36:39 GMT -4
The only thing he believes in is God. And every retarded conspiray he can find. Quite frankly in Real Life there is a point where you just cut your losses and let someone be stupid. Your "friend" has reached that stage.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jul 21, 2009 11:02:18 GMT -4
He believes that NASA and the US Gov. is covering it all up. The money spent on NASA is being used for other things. I believe the hoax would be more expensive that going to the moon. First of all, the hoax would be an ongoing concern. Although the Apollo Program ended almost 35 years ago (after the Apollo-Soyuz docking in 1975), the hoax would still need to be maintained. The people behind it would have to bribe new generations of scientists who are capable of uncovering the hoax. They would also need to bribe the governments of India, Japan, and China when they decided to send probes to the Moon. They would need to employ new Photoshop experts to fake the LRO photographs. This also means more people are in on the hoax, and I find it extremely unlikely so many people could keep that secret. Also, even though the Apollo Program was supposedly a sham, NASA still had to build the rockets and spacecraft. People saw them launch so we know they were real. That means there was a real (and very expensive) publicly visible space program in conjunction with the hidden hoax program (moon sets, acting lessons, lighting, props, etc.). A lot. And people aren't good at keeping secrets.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 21, 2009 11:04:41 GMT -4
Quite frankly in Real Life there is a point where you just cut your losses and let someone be stupid. Your "friend" has reached that stage. I agree; it sounds like the friend has reached the point of no return. I don't mind answering a few more questions, but unless this person has a soon and unexpected epiphany, there's a limit to how much effort I'm willing to waste.
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Post by scooter on Jul 21, 2009 11:39:48 GMT -4
This is a perfect example of an HB who won't...no, refuses to do any research on a subject they believe in.
thequestion, your friend makes extraordinary claims based on a very limited data set, probably a YouTube video or two linked to from some conspitacy site. Had your friend really been interested in the truth, he would have studied both sides of the argument. He hasn't, and like virtually all HBs, he won't.
We have. We study each hoax argument, some are misunderstandings, some are just foolish leaps of logic. Many omit key evidence, or carefully select evidence that appears "support" their claim, while ignoring the rest.
You friend doesn't want to learn the truth, he probably feels he gets more emotional support in the HB crowd, a feeling of superiority as he really knows "the truth". Unfortunately, he doesn't, and doesn't want to.
Reality is far more mundane than the hoax, or so they think. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around gimbal actuators that can minutely adjust 3 million pound thrust rocket motor nozzles.
Now, THATS exciting! It's unfortunate that your friend refuses to share in that sort of thing...
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Post by thequestion on Jul 21, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -4
Thank you lionking, Kiwi, dragonbalster, & others. The exact points about the camera film were great and I can see the Hoxer's grip starting to loosen off his clouded brain. We are making progress...
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Post by gillianren on Jul 21, 2009 13:57:02 GMT -4
The reason I asked how many people he thinks were and have been involved in the hoax has a great deal to do with how easy it is for any one person to keep a secret. The more people trying to keep the secret, the harder it is to do so. Again, it didn't take long for Iran-Contra or Watergate to be revealed, and they involved way fewer people. The number of people your friend is proposing as being part of it gets larger and larger. Whoopi Goldberg? Why would anyone bother using her as a plant?
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Post by laurel on Jul 21, 2009 14:45:10 GMT -4
The only thing he believes in is God. Point these out to him, although I wonder if he might pass judgement on them as "unsuitable" Christians. Gene Kranz, Flight director: Christian and churchgoer. Frank Borman, Commander, Apollo 8: Lay preacher. Entire Apollo 8 crew: Read from Genesis while orbiting the moon and were later sued by atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair for doing so. Buzz Aldrin, Apollo 11. Active in church life, took communion and said a brief prayer inside Eagle shortly after landing on the moon. Jim Irwin, Apollo 15. Left Nasa in 1972 to form High Flight, a Christian ministry. Dave Scott, Apollo 15. Active Christian. Left a small red-covered Bible leaning against the joy-stick of the rover after parking it for the last time. It can be seen in AS15-88-11901. Charlie Duke, Apollo 16: Born-again Christian, retired from business to pursue a Christian ministry. There would be many others of whom I am unaware, and I don't doubt that there would be others involved with Apollo who belonged to and were active in other religious faiths and/or believed in God. For instance, Egyptian-born geologist Farouk El-Baz offered the Apollo 15 astronauts a copy of the Koran and his prayers for their safety. Stuart Roosa talked to Andrew Chaikin about listening to the hymn "How Great Thou Art" during Apollo 14, a dramatic experience for him.
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Post by thequestion on Jul 21, 2009 19:31:23 GMT -4
Hello everyone... Well after hours and hours of looking over the Hoax "evidence" he came up with this: "NASA claims that the space suits worn by the astronauts were pressurized at 5 psi over the ambient pressure (0 psi vacuum) on the moon's surface. We have examined the gloves NASA claims the astronauts wore and find they are made of pliable material containing no mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical devices which would aid the astronauts in the dexterous use of their fingers and hands while wearing the gloves. Experiments prove absolutely that such gloves are impossible to use and that the wearer cannot bend the wrist or fingers to do any dexterous work whatsoever when filled with 5 psi over ambient pressure either in a vacuum or in the earth's atmosphere. NASA actually showed film and television footage of astronauts using their hands and fingers normally during their EVAs on the so-called lunar surface. The films show clearly that there is no pressure whatsoever within the gloves... a condition that would have caused explosive decompression of the astronauts resulting in almost immediate death if they had really been surrounded by the vacuum of space." The film in the camera according to Kodak melts at 150 degreesFactually incorrect. The film emulsions were placed on an ESTAR polyester film base. The melting point of ESTAR is 490° F, although some shrinkage and distortion can occur at around 200° F. the moon is 250 plus at high noon when they supposedly where filming.Factually incorret. The astronauts were not filming at high noon, the were filming during lunar morning. Furthermore, the stated temperature is the maximum surface temperature of the Moon. What relevance does the surface temperature have on the film issue? The film in uncooled cameras would melt.Factually incorrect. The film would not melt under the stated temperature and the cameras were kept well below this temperature by utilizing passive thermal control measures, i.e. making the bodies white to reflect solar energy. The gloves at 4psi could not be used to change a camera! Factually incorrect. How the gloves were manufactured and how the cameras were modified is well documented. There is plenty of video evidence showing the astronauts operating the cameras and other tools. Claims like these I always find utterly ridiculous. If the astronauts really couldn't operate the cameras, don't you think it would be a pretty simple matter to engineer a camera that could be operated? Does your friend really think a camera is some sort of show stopper? The soviets are big liars themselves.The Soviets don't exist anyone, but yes, they were big liars about some things. However, what they lied about and what they told the truth about is verifiable by studying the evidence. What specifically does your friend think they lied about?
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 21, 2009 20:19:05 GMT -4
"NASA claims that the space suits worn by the astronauts were pressurized at 5 psi over the ambient pressure (0 psi vacuum) on the moon's surface. We have examined the gloves NASA claims the astronauts wore and find they are made of pliable material containing no mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical devices which would aid the astronauts in the dexterous use of their fingers and hands while wearing the gloves. Experiments prove absolutely that such gloves are impossible to use and that the wearer cannot bend the wrist or fingers to do any dexterous work whatsoever when filled with 5 psi over ambient pressure either in a vacuum or in the earth's atmosphere. NASA actually showed film and television footage of astronauts using their hands and fingers normally during their EVAs on the so-called lunar surface. The films show clearly that there is no pressure whatsoever within the gloves... a condition that would have caused explosive decompression of the astronauts resulting in almost immediate death if they had really been surrounded by the vacuum of space." The suits were pressurized to about 3.7 PSI, not 5 PSI. Who is this "we" claiming to have examined the gloves? I'm guessing the information is coming from conspiracist Ralph Rene who concocted an experiment with a pressurized glove (more about this later). The Apollo gloves do not include any hydraulic or electrical devices, but they do include what could be considered a mechanical device – bulbous constant-volume joints at the knuckles. These joints allow the knuckles to flex with no (or little) change of volume within the glove. If the volume doesn’t change, then there is no compression of the gas inside and the hand can flex with relative ease. Without these joints, flexing the hand would squeeze and reduce the volume inside the glove, thereby compressing the gas. Compressing the gas takes effort, thus the flexing action is resisted. The bulbous joints are simple devices but they do the job nicely. (Edit: re-worded the above paragraph to better explain my point.) The “experiments” to which your friend is likely referring do not prove that such gloves are impossible because Apollo-type gloves were not used in the experiment. Ralph Rene used just a plain rubber glove (likely an electrical lineman’s glove) without constant-volume joints. It is also possible that the experiment was conducted at a pressure differential higher than 3.7 PSI, though this is not verified. The experiment didn’t prove anything about the Apollo gloves – it was bogus. Any film of the astronauts working on the moon would show the non-pressurized outer glove that slipped over the pressurized glove. The gloves appear to be non-pressurized because they were. The glove that formed part of the pressure garment assembly is not visible in the EVA imagery.
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Post by laurel on Jul 21, 2009 20:31:50 GMT -4
Hello everyone... Well after hours and hours of looking over the Hoax "evidence" he came up with this: "NASA claims that the space suits worn by the astronauts were pressurized at 5 psi over the ambient pressure (0 psi vacuum) on the moon's surface. We have examined the gloves NASA claims the astronauts wore and find they are made of pliable material containing no mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical devices which would aid the astronauts in the dexterous use of their fingers and hands while wearing the gloves. Experiments prove absolutely that such gloves are impossible to use and that the wearer cannot bend the wrist or fingers to do any dexterous work whatsoever when filled with 5 psi over ambient pressure either in a vacuum or in the earth's atmosphere. NASA actually showed film and television footage of astronauts using their hands and fingers normally during their EVAs on the so-called lunar surface. The films show clearly that there is no pressure whatsoever within the gloves... a condition that would have caused explosive decompression of the astronauts resulting in almost immediate death if they had really been surrounded by the vacuum of space" This is from Milton William Cooper. Word for word. www.mt.net/~watcher/masonapollo.htmlIn the same rant, Cooper says, "The most transparent was the faked explosion on the spacecraft Apollo 13, named "Aquarius" (new age) at 1:13 (1313 military time) on April 13, 1970 which was the metaphor for the initiation ceremony involving the death (explosion), placement in the coffin (period of uncertainty of their survival), communion with the spiritual world and the imparting of esoteric knowledge to the candidate (orbit and observation of the moon without physical contact), rebirth of the initiate (solution of problem and repairs), and the raising up (of the Phoenix, the new age of Aquarius) by the grip of the lions paw (reentry and recovery of Apollo 13)." Actually, the explosion happened on the Command Service Module (named Odyssey). Aquarius was the name of the Lunar Module that the crew ended up using a lifeboat to get home. And the explosion happened at 9:07 pm (2107 military time). Talk about bad research! Cooper goes on to say, "Another revelation to those who understand the symbolic language of the Illuminati is the hidden meaning of the names of the Space Shuttles, 'A Colombian Enterprise to Endeavor for the Discovery of Atlantis... and all Challengers shall be destroyed.'" He apparently doesn't know that the space shuttle name was Columbia, not Colombia. Cooper also says, "No man has ever orbited, landed on, or walked upon the moon in any publicly known space program. If man has ever truly been to the moon it has been done in secret and with a far different technology." He knows there was a hoax, he just can't make up his mind which hoax it was. He is not a reliable source.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 21, 2009 20:57:16 GMT -4
Apollo 13 launched at 13:13 CST on April 11.
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Post by BertL on Jul 21, 2009 21:01:36 GMT -4
All this talk about secret symbols representing death in Apollo 13, and all three astronauts came back alive! Talk about some bad Illuminati planning. I'll inform my NWO superiors about this.
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Post by laurel on Jul 21, 2009 21:12:46 GMT -4
Apollo 13 launched at 13:13 CST on April 11. I know. He somehow got a launch mixed up with an oxygen tank explosion. It reminds me of Cosmic Dave's claim that "On the 13th hour of the 13th day of the 13th Apollo Mission, disaster struck when an oxygen tank exploded." Apollo 13 lasted six days.
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