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Post by lionking on May 27, 2010 3:15:13 GMT -4
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Post by gillianren on May 27, 2010 3:39:16 GMT -4
Well, there's not actually any real evidence of that, but some people will believe anything.
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Post by lionking on May 27, 2010 5:01:10 GMT -4
these are doctors doing a research in reputable universities , not your average lay person speaking
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Post by lionking on May 27, 2010 5:15:55 GMT -4
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Post by gillianren on May 27, 2010 13:01:28 GMT -4
Doctors in reputable universities can do crazy things, too. However, every properly run study shows that people who claim to know things about their organ donor are wrong in almost every detail, often unto age and sex.
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Post by echnaton on May 27, 2010 14:40:43 GMT -4
Lionking, you would get a better response by writing a few paragraphs about the subject and why you think it might be interesting to your fellow board members . Most of us aren't going to spend any time reading a link to a fringe subject if you haven't spent the time to explain why we should. The initial cellular memory link looks to be some guy with a computer making stuff up. Not really worth my time.
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Post by echnaton on May 27, 2010 14:54:57 GMT -4
In reading the comments on this article I found this,
So here we have a woman who was gravely ill and had likely been so for some time to qualify for a liver transplant. Not that she has a functioning organ, her life has improved and her attitude is better.
She does not really attribute this to the woman who gave her this organ, anyone who goes form being deathly ill to feeling health is likely to feel like a new person, quite literally. And to feel a emotional connection to the organ donor. After all it must be an odd feeling to have anothers organs inside of you.
But there is no need to invoke an unproven "cellular memory" theory to explain the change. A new chance at a healthy life is enough to change anyone.
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Post by lionking on May 27, 2010 15:15:09 GMT -4
In reading the comments on this article I found this, So here we have a woman who was gravely ill and had likely been so for some time to qualify for a liver transplant. Not that she has a functioning organ, her life has improved and her attitude is better. She does not really attribute this to the woman who gave her this organ, anyone who goes form being deathly ill to feeling health is likely to feel like a new person, quite literally. And to feel a emotional connection to the organ donor. After all it must be an odd feeling to have anothers organs inside of you. But there is no need to invoke an unproven "cellular memory" theory to explain the change. A new chance at a healthy life is enough to change anyone. I am afraid echnaton that you'll have to read.. as for gillinaren, where are your studies? echnaton, the article is in the journal of near death studies. access it here www.springerlink.com/content/k51335l4k4676577/it has PDF format. some people even had different sexual orientations. I can't dismiss all those stories as fraud .. especially the example I posted |
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Post by gillianren on May 27, 2010 16:58:48 GMT -4
some people even had different sexual orientations. I can't dismiss all those stories as fraud .. especially the example I posted And here we get into the typical false dichotomy. Some of them undoubtedly are fraud. (I'd like a little documentation on the one you quoted, for example; getting therapy from a psychiatrist is vanishingly rare these days.) Some of them, like the one Echnaton cited, cannot be confirmed and are just as likely to be caused by other things. Alas, the studies I've read are in dead-tree format, and checked out from the library at that, so I can't cite them directly. But getting an organ transplant, or indeed any major surgery, is a life-changing event, so if people's lives are changed, is it more plausible to assume some "cell memory" with no plausible mechanism or to assume that they have a different perspective on things to go with their experiences? |
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Post by Data Cable on May 28, 2010 1:20:21 GMT -4
Citation, please. No names are used, no location is given, in fact no verifiable details are relayed at all. This is the very epitome of an anonymous anecdote. I find it very hard to swallow that someone could be tried, less convicted, based on nightmares of the victim's organ recipient. (At least in the U.S., even soaked in woo as the culture is.  ) Without further corroboration that this event even happened, I'm filing this alongside "psychics" who claim to have (successfully) assisted police investigations (yet whom the cops have either never heard of, or consider an intrusive pest.) |
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Post by lionking on May 28, 2010 2:34:01 GMT -4
some people even had different sexual orientations. I can't dismiss all those stories as fraud .. especially the example I posted And here we get into the typical false dichotomy. Some of them undoubtedly are fraud. (I'd like a little documentation on the one you quoted, for example; getting therapy from a psychiatrist is vanishingly rare these days.) Some of them, like the one Echnaton cited, cannot be confirmed and are just as likely to be caused by other things. Alas, the studies I've read are in dead-tree format, and checked out from the library at that, so I can't cite them directly. But getting an organ transplant, or indeed any major surgery, is a life-changing event, so if people's lives are changed, is it more plausible to assume some "cell memory" with no plausible mechanism or to assume that they have a different perspective on things to go with their experiences? here is a site that provides reference for this. also read the attachment about Clair. I also read yesterday her own words describing her experience. it is far more than liking to drink beer and eat green peppers and chicken. Attachments:
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Post by lionking on May 28, 2010 2:41:22 GMT -4
Alas, the studies I've read are in dead-tree format, and checked out from the library at that, so I can't cite them directly.
nevermind, it is in reply number 3 site.
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Post by lionking on May 28, 2010 3:36:09 GMT -4
chweck also Linton's reference of Pert's article : Why do we feel the way we feel? www.angelfire.com/hi/TheSeer/Pert.htmlthe neuropeptides thaughts previously to exist only in the brain where found in other organs such as the heart. these make the brain do many functions and one of them is memory |
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Post by Jason Thompson on May 28, 2010 4:24:25 GMT -4
the neuropeptides thaughts previously to exist only in the brain where found in other organs such as the heart. these make the brain do many functions and one of them is memory Brain cells and cardiac cells are very different, and the fact that the same peptides are found in both proves absolutely nothing. |
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Post by Jason Thompson on May 28, 2010 4:28:45 GMT -4
some people even had different sexual orientations. So? Some people think they are oriented one way and then change when they meet someone else, or they tell themselves they are one way and it takes a big event for them to admit they are the other. As gillianren already said, life-saving transplant surgery is a HUGE life-changing event, and may be just the kick needed for, say, a closet homosexual to realise that life is too short to lie to yourself about who you are. People are not the same throughout their lives. Tastes change, perosnalities change, all sorts of things change for all sorts of reasons. I see no reason to connect the changes experineced after such a traumatic experience as organ transplant surgery to some kind of cellular memory, without first excluding other possibilities. It is a complete scientific no-no to assume that because things coincide they are causally related. |
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) Without further corroboration that this event even happened, I'm filing this alongside "psychics" who claim to have (successfully) assisted police investigations (yet whom the cops have either never heard of, or consider an intrusive pest.) 