Reflectors on the moon

[ultima1]

One thing that the "no moon landing" people cannot debate or debunk is the relfectors placed on the moon by the Apollo missions and a Russion mission.

www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions/apollo/apollo_11/experiments/lrr/
The Laser Ranging Retroreflector experiment was deployed on Apollo 11, 14, and 15. It consists of a series of corner-cube reflectors, which are a special type of mirror with the property of always reflecting an incoming light beam back in the direction it came from. A similar device was also included on the Soviet Union's Lunakhod 2 spacecraft. These reflectors can be illuminated by laser beams aimed through large telescopes on Earth. The reflected laser beam is also observed with the telescope, providing a measurement of the round-trip distance between Earth and the Moon. This is the only Apollo experiment that is still returning data from the Moon. Many of these measurements have been made by McDonald Observatory in Texas. From 1969 to 1985, they were made on a part-time basis using the McDonald Observatory 107-inch telescope. Since 1985, these observations have been made using a dedicated 30-inch telescope. Additional measurements have been made by observatories in Hawaii, California, France, Australia, and Germany.

[Jason Thompson]

But they can. They claim the reflectors were put there by unmanned flights, and point to the Russian Lunokhod rovers as examples.

[ultima1]

But they cannot show any evidence of unmanned vehicles that placed the American versions.

[BertL]

Jun 14, 2010 10:15:24 GMT -4 ultima1 said:

But they cannot show any evidence of unmanned vehicles that placed the American versions.

Of course not, because there is none. But in the mind of a conspiracy theory that doesn't matter.

[ultima1]

True, they do tend to live in a fantasy world.

[laurel]

Welcome to the board, Ultima1.

[echnaton]

Welcome, Ultima1.

And welcome to the "logic" of hoax belief.

[ultima1]

The moon landing hoax is only a fantasy.

There is more then enough evidence that would hold up in court that we did land on the moon.

[echnaton]

I would like to see how several of the major hoax proponents would hold up in court.

[dream]It would be a pleasant sight to see BS wilt under heated examination of his claims. Being forced to admit all his deceit or face perjury charges. [/dream]

[ka9q]

Jun 14, 2010 10:05:40 GMT -4 ultima1 said:

One thing that the "no moon landing" people cannot debate or debunk is the relfectors placed on the moon by the Apollo missions and a Russion mission.

Oh, but they try. Do they ever try.

At least one hoax proponent (Jarrah White, who has produced a massive collection of videos on Youtube purporting to show Apollo a fake) points out that successful experiments were undertaken in the early 1960s to reflect lasers off the surface.

He also points to the presence of laser altimeters on moon-orbiting spacecraft such as the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter that can get reflections off the bare surface.

He then implies that the laser returns obtained at the McDonald Observatory and the Apache Point Observatory do not prove the existence of artificial reflectors on the moon.

I cite this to show that most moon hoax conspiracy theorists are completely clueless about numbers. Despite the success of the pre-Apollo experiments, the laser at Apache Point is simply not powerful enough to produce returns without the help of artificial reflectors.

The Project Luna-See experiment performed at MIT used a ruby laser with a half millisecond pulse containing 50 joules of energy per pulse. The Apache Point laser generates pulses only 90 picoseconds long with only 115 millijoules per pulse. The shorter pulse is necessary for the desired range resolution, which they now have down to a millimeter or less. This resolution is simply impossible without an artificial reflector because, even if their laser were far more powerful, the return would come from an area several km wide and be spread out over quite a few microseconds. The returns at Apache Point can only be from a small (~ 1m), extremely reflective and therefore artificial object.

At this point, the hoax advocates usually back off and allege that the presence of the Apollo reflectors are not proof that astronauts put them there. Yes, but there is plenty of corroborating evidence that astronauts did place them there and no evidence that they were placed by robots. And there is of course plenty of other evidence that astronauts have been to the Apollo sites.

[PhantomWolf]

Jun 14, 2010 10:15:24 GMT -4 ultima1 said:

But they cannot show any evidence of unmanned vehicles that placed the American versions.

There is no evidence because NASA and Nixon covered it up. Prove that they weren't out there by robotic probes. NASA had already send sent the Suyovers there, and sent Viking to Mars. Prove they didn't send other probes to the Moon to place the LRRRs.

[gillianren]

I think, PW, that the point is being made that they can't.

[ultima1]

ka9q, yes there was laser ranging done on the moon itself BUT they needed the reflectors on the moon for more accurate readings.

So far no one has produced evidence that debates the fact that the reflectors were placed on the moon by the manned Apollo missions.

[capricorn1]

Jun 15, 2010 4:28:52 GMT -4 ultima1 said:

ka9q, yes there was laser ranging done on the moon itself BUT they needed the reflectors on the moon for more accurate readings.

So far no one has produced evidence that debates the fact that the reflectors were placed on the moon by the manned Apollo missions.

You won't get any either......just speculation. Could haves and stuff like that.
To me it proves 'something' went to the moon. Something that could land, it proves electronics don't get fried when they pass through the 'deadly' Van Allen belts......but humans do?

The reflectors are sending back signals from the Apollo sites, man put them there, but difficult to prove it was Apollo manned missions that put them there I'd say.

[ultima1]

Yes even some of the "no moon landing" people agree that their are reflectors on the moon, but they state they were put there by unmanned missions.

Fact is that it proves electronics can survive the Van Allen belt that others of the "no moon landing" people state that nothing could get through.

So see how their "no moon landing" theory completely falls apart. They cannot even agree on a theory.