Indistinguishable From Or Actually Magic?

[gillianren]

Okay. As came up in the Apollo section, I write novels (and short stories) about superheroes.

While there's a little lip service paid to science in places--I know a lot more about science now than when I started writing them in high school (ironic, really, since a lot of the first book was written in my physics class!), and I still don't know a heck of a lot--in the end, it's mostly chalked up to magic, as indicated by the appearance several books in of the Queen of the Fae.

Now, to me, this makes it "actually magic." Others may still consider it "sufficiently high technology," but since the Uncanny Queen is, for all practical purposes, immortal for no reason she controls, I think it's magic.

[Grand Lunar]

Well, it's your novel, so you can create anything in it. It's fantasy, right? Anything goes!
And it's not a bad thing that magic is present. Look how popular "Lord of the Rings" is. I liked that series as much as any sci-fi novel.

So, go ahead with the magic premise in it. It can work.

[Jason]

If it's indistinguishable by any means then it doesn't really make a difference if it is or isn't magic, does it?

[LunarOrbit]

The Discovery Channel aired "The Science of Superman" last summer (around the time "Superman Returns" opened) and it was actually pretty interesting. I doubt it's available on DVD, but maybe YouTube has it.

Edit:

YouTube does have it:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

[nomuse]

First one argument. Fantasy or magic should not mean that anything goes; any more than "sufficiently advanced technology" should be used in that manner. It doesn't matter whether the hero gets himself out of a tight corner by suddenly revealing he's been carrying a potion of super-strength in his sash all this time, or Geordi gets the Enterprise out of danger by reversing polarity on the Deflector Array. The point is you owe it to your audience to play fair. The best surprises are those where the reader says "Of course, of course! I should have seen that coming!"

It is tough work for the writer, no matter your choice of genre. To put across a potential loophole in a scientific plan you have to educate your audience in the science involved. To put across a fatal flaw in a bit of magic, you have to educate your audience on the rules of magic within your fantasy universe. It is the same exercise the mystery writer goes through; if they are going to reveal that the butler did it, they'd better make sure there IS a butler, and he is present in the earlier scenes.

[gillianren]

I am very firm on the fact that all of my characters have certain abilities, and they cannot all of a sudden do things that are not part of those abilities. (Well, sometimes, their abilities come as a surprise from a story perspective, but that's because it's intended to be a surprise to the characters whose perspectives I'm using.)

One thing I've sworn to myself that I won't do is the ever-popular Marvel "death doesn't mean anything" bit. When my characters die (with one exception thus far, and he's well-explained!), they stay dead. They don't get resurrected over and over again. (Except the one.) I don't think I'd even have anyone fake a death.

Actually, I maintain a pretty massive story bible so I keep continuity. Also, the stories are pretty much inevitably more character-driven than power-driven, simply because I write them better that way.

[LunarOrbit]

Do you watch "Heroes", Gillianren? It's surprisingly well written, and although magic is required they try to at least make it sound believable.

[gillianren]

I missed the first episode, and it sounds like you have to watch them in order to really understand what's going on. I'll Netflix the first season, when I can.

[LunarOrbit]

Yes, it does have a story arc so it helps if you follow it. The first half of the season was developing the characters, the second half will be getting to the primary story.

[nomuse]

If you want to mix physics with superheros, strikes me it would be wise to take a leaf from H.G. Wells; make one whopping big assumption, and once you've gotten your audience to accept that, play it straight from then on in.

I still think its a persuasive line of argument that superheros and physics are immiscible. I am not entirely persuaded, but I am guided to be careful about introducing too much realism into a genre that is built on what appear patently ridiculous assumptions.

However you argue, though, can't deny it is great fun to try. The only novel I finished (and is now in a trunk, alas, as no publisher proved interested) was an attempt to re-create certain anime tropes within a vaguely plausible SF universe. I turned the giant robots into not-particularly-humanoid construction machines, but I still had to wave my hands really fast to turn attention away from their power supplies. I have also been tinkering off and on with a fanfic in a well-known sentai universe. Been puzzling of late over what exactly would happen if a youma came flying at the armed Phalanx gun system on a modern US warship...

[lionking]

u reminded me of a writing course I took. I wrote an imaginative story that tells about a thief that wakes up with sunrise to search for diamonds everyday. he enters every cave , turns up every ock on earth, even goes to the poles. at night, a wagon with horses carries him to the sky, to the moon. he stands next to the moon and fills it with diamonds, so it shines. he watches the moon all night. he watches how it gives light for the shepard, how lovers look at it,....at the end, he comes behind the moon, and quickly turns it upside down to his bag,but the moon screwed the bag so jewels are scattered again, while the thief comes back to earth,and his job continues forever to gather diamonds

[gillianren]

I picked up The Physics of Superheroes today from the library. I'm still simply not skilled enough in science to make it reliable. Still, when book one gets close to publishable shape, I may borrow expertise from some of you to check it for plausibility.

[echnaton]

immiscible

I learned a new word today, thanks nomuse.

[gillianren]

Me, too! That's a lovely word.

[nomuse]

"Parker!" J. Jonah Jameson shouted the name around his trademark cigar. "Get that camera of yours! There's a new super hero in town -- some nut-job calling himself the Immiscible Man. Claims to be able to combine himself with other liquids without forming a homogenous mass -- or some such rot. I want pictures, son, mixed, plain, or with coconut sprinkles on top; get them on my desk by noon tomorrow or you'll be looking for a new job!"