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Post by Jairo on Oct 20, 2010 8:04:45 GMT -4
I know astronauts were chosen from test pilots and had a lot of flight experience, but was the quality and quantity of this experience enough to be a regular pilot of a big passenger jet?
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Post by echnaton on Oct 20, 2010 9:15:50 GMT -4
Skills with the instruments and procedures are plane specific and a pilot has to be qualified on the plane he is flying. A fighter jockey can not just step into the cockpit of a commercial jetliner and take to the air. Nor can a 737 qualified pilot jump into a 747 and take passengers off to Timbuktu. That said, many military pilots have become civilian commercial pilots. I have heard that the military is not the career path by preferred by airlines for new hires.
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Post by ka9q on Oct 20, 2010 10:49:12 GMT -4
I have heard that the military is not the career path by preferred by airlines for new hires. Really? I had thought that many airline pilots are former military. Where else can you get thousands of hours of jet time? |
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Post by echnaton on Oct 20, 2010 11:10:17 GMT -4
I have heard that the military is not the career path by preferred by airlines for new hires. Really? I had thought that many airline pilots are former military. Where else can you get thousands of hours of jet time? Yes they have, which is why I said My statement about the preferred path is what I have heard from conversations with a few pilots about airline preferences for civilian trained pilots. I think I prefaced it appropriately as not at all authoritative. The supply of ex-military pilots was large after the Korean war at the same time the airline industry was growing rapidly through the introduction of the jet. Today the airline business is stagnant and the airlines primarily need to replace retiring pilots. The military also doesn't have the surplus of talent they once did. In my understanding, putting young civilian pilots (who hire on more cheaply) on a career path is the preferred method of hiring. |
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Post by PUshift on Oct 20, 2010 15:51:02 GMT -4
German Lufthansa is known for rather not been interested to engage military pilots, as well as "bush-pilots with africa-experience" due to their "mentality", maybe avoiding standard procedures in certain situations, taking headstrong decisions and therefor might dangerously split the team in emergency cases. This is definitely not wanted for civil aviation. Teamwork has 1st priority since security is more important than heroism.
Funny that this equates more to the properties of astronauts than to the preconception of military pilots. But they were choosen out of many.
The type-ratings for different aircraft patterns can be achieved much easier than to attain the missing pilot license.
An ATPL (AirTransportPilotLicense) is additionally needed to any "internal military-licenses" (I don´t really know what they have) which are likely similar to a CPL/IFR. The extra apprenticeship-costs for that are quite extensive and it took its time.
The age must not exceed 30 years at ready-entry (29 years and 364 days exactly!). If one has full-filled his military career there´s not much time left to change.
Due to these reasons many or most of premium-airline pilots might have started their profession based on civil aviation only.
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Post by Obviousman on Oct 21, 2010 2:34:52 GMT -4
Don't forget not to lump "military" in one group.
If I have 3500 hours in fighters, then I'm certainly an experienced pilot but not necessarily valuable to the airlines.
On the other hand, if I have been a C-135 / C-130 / KC-10 pilot with similar hours I am VERY valuable. I have time in the heavies and used to working in a multiple crew cockpit environment.
WRT the astronauts, the TP requirement was dropped from the third group onwards (IIRC). Being a pilot was considered essential, so that is why the scientists had to go through flight training. IMHO it is not so much the stick-and-rudder stuff, but operating in an aviation environment.
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Post by banjomd on Oct 21, 2010 9:31:46 GMT -4
German Lufthansa is known for rather not been interested to engage military pilots, as well as "bush-pilots with africa-experience" due to their "mentality", maybe avoiding standard procedures in certain situations, taking headstrong decisions and therefor might dangerously split the team in emergency cases. This is definitely not wanted for civil aviation. Teamwork has 1st priority since security is more important than heroism. IMHO; Lufthansa could learn something from Chesley Sullenberger!(ex-military pilot) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger |
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Post by PUshift on Oct 21, 2010 10:26:30 GMT -4
German Lufthansa is known for rather not been interested to engage military pilots, as well as "bush-pilots with africa-experience" due to their "mentality", maybe avoiding standard procedures in certain situations, taking headstrong decisions and therefor might dangerously split the team in emergency cases. This is definitely not wanted for civil aviation. Teamwork has 1st priority since security is more important than heroism. IMHO; Lufthansa could learn something from Chesley Sullenberger!(ex-military pilot) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_SullenbergerOf course Sullenberger is a hero, great achievement of him. A counter-example could be this tragedy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgenair_Flight_301 where teamwork was disturbed by the captain´s domination of a downtrodden co-pilot (who was right instead). Such wouldn´t happen on airlines like LH or others where none of the crew members has the right to overrule the other one even he`s got less stripes on his shoulder. |
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Post by Obviousman on Oct 21, 2010 10:49:56 GMT -4
"Captain, you must listen to me..."
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Post by laurel on Oct 21, 2010 11:01:22 GMT -4
El Al only hires former Israeli Air Force pilots. Security reasons.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Oct 21, 2010 11:30:15 GMT -4
A counter-example could be this tragedy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgenair_Flight_301 where teamwork was disturbed by the captain´s domination of a downtrodden co-pilot (who was right instead). Such wouldn´t happen on airlines like LH or others where none of the crew members has the right to overrule the other one even he`s got less stripes on his shoulder. What do they do when none of the crew can agree on the correct course of action? Play "Rock, Paper, Scissors"? |
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Post by Data Cable on Oct 21, 2010 11:41:17 GMT -4
Sounds similar to one of the contributing factors to this incident. |
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Post by echnaton on Oct 21, 2010 11:47:36 GMT -4
German Lufthansa is known for rather not been interested to engage military pilots, as well as "bush-pilots with africa-experience" due to their "mentality", maybe avoiding standard procedures in certain situations, taking headstrong decisions and therefor might dangerously split the team in emergency cases. This is definitely not wanted for civil aviation. Teamwork has 1st priority since security is more important than heroism. IMHO; Lufthansa could learn something from Chesley Sullenberger!(ex-military pilot) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_SullenbergerWas it his military training or his innate skills that made him the great pilot he is? He was an outstanding cadet and a leader at the academy, suggesting that his hours as an air force pilot were less crucial to his abilities compared to natural aptitude. Business hiring policies a complex mixture of getting the requite set of skills for the least amount of money by people that are likely to contribute to corporate culture and follow a career path. There is no one objectively best answer for this for any hiring situation. But companies do exhibit preferences in hiring practices based on successful experiences. |
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Post by banjomd on Oct 21, 2010 11:56:33 GMT -4
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Post by Data Cable on Oct 21, 2010 12:23:10 GMT -4
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