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God
Oct 3, 2005 4:27:18 GMT -4
Post by lordoftherings on Oct 3, 2005 4:27:18 GMT -4
Just think of everything in this world how it works as if it has a brain. Think of the ants. The queen ant produces a chemical to sterilize female ants, passes by and eats any egg that is not from her, so that her children are the only ones to come. This is compared to high-positioned ppl who gave it this smartness? who put the Earth with all its creatures depending on each other in a complex way that if a species die, the other will get affected? Think about the fish in the sea. There is one fish that hides all its children in its mouth when danger approaches. Who has put smartness into its head? Think about the atoms how they behave, how you can derive electricity... think of ppl who God has answered their replies.. he is present, in the smallest atom to the greatest whale, to us and in us.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 3, 2005 5:03:26 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 3, 2005 5:03:26 GMT -4
Ants just follow a small set of very simple rules along the lines of "If X happens do Y"
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God
Oct 3, 2005 5:49:03 GMT -4
Post by papageno on Oct 3, 2005 5:49:03 GMT -4
Think about the fish in the sea. There is one fish that hides all its children in its mouth when danger approaches. Who has put smartness into its head? Think about the water-dwelling creatures that can drown. Where is the smartness?
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God
Oct 3, 2005 7:19:32 GMT -4
Post by gwiz on Oct 3, 2005 7:19:32 GMT -4
You can choke to death because your air-path and food-path cross in your throat. There is no reason they have to do this, where is the smartness?
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 3, 2005 7:43:33 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 3, 2005 7:43:33 GMT -4
It's an evolutionary hangover from the first tetrapod to make a living on the land, from which we are all descended; not something that would be designed in.
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:25:32 GMT -4
Post by lordoftherings on Oct 3, 2005 8:25:32 GMT -4
You can choke to death because your air-path and food-path cross in your throat. There is no reason they have to do this, where is the smartness? If you didn't have that peace of flesh (forgot its scientific name) that ccloses your throught when you swallow, you would choke in every swallow. The choking is a result of malfunctioning of the system.
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:26:46 GMT -4
Post by lordoftherings on Oct 3, 2005 8:26:46 GMT -4
Ants just follow a small set of very simple rules along the lines of "If X happens do Y" who taught them to do so? It should cause someone to wonder.
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:34:25 GMT -4
Post by papageno on Oct 3, 2005 8:34:25 GMT -4
You can choke to death because your air-path and food-path cross in your throat. There is no reason they have to do this, where is the smartness? If you didn't have that peace of flesh (forgot its scientific name) that ccloses your throught when you swallow, you would choke in every swallow. The choking is a result of malfunctioning of the system. Aren't there apes that can swallow and breathe at the same time? Also, human babies can do it as well. Why let the system develop into something that can malfunction?
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:47:51 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 3, 2005 8:47:51 GMT -4
who taught them to do so? It should cause someone to wonder. They don't need anyone: ants do things anyway, those that did certain things in particular circumstances lived longer and had more offspring who'd be more likely to act the same way, than those that didn't. Over time the only ants to hang around were those whose behaviours fitted their environment. Quite a lot of people have looked into this: "evolution" and "emergence" are a couple of starting points to search from.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:50:12 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 3, 2005 8:50:12 GMT -4
Aren't there apes that can swallow and breathe at the same time? All of them except us: the immediate problem arises from the co-option of the tracheal-closing mechanism to produce speech.
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:50:48 GMT -4
Post by lordoftherings on Oct 3, 2005 8:50:48 GMT -4
If you didn't have that peace of flesh (forgot its scientific name) that ccloses your throught when you swallow, you would choke in every swallow. The choking is a result of malfunctioning of the system. Aren't there apes that can swallow and breathe at the same time? Also, human babies can do it as well. Why let the system develop into something that can malfunction? to disprove evolution Actually, in Islam, there is a call for thinking that God can make us choke by our own saliva, to prove his greatness in controlling ppl's lives About the animals, do you mean like crabs who can drown? If so, then, these crabs need to eat oysters to limit their numbers, for example. They fit the biggest cycle. Their bodies look like rocks to camoflage, so if they are to swim, they are going to be seen, but if they hide at the bottm among rocks, that is better to them. Many scientists said they are firm believers in the presence of God. i wrote what they had to say. I will see if I can translate them bcz I read them in Arabic. regards
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:51:28 GMT -4
Post by gwiz on Oct 3, 2005 8:51:28 GMT -4
You can choke to death because your air-path and food-path cross in your throat. There is no reason they have to do this, where is the smartness? If you didn't have that peace of flesh (forgot its scientific name) that ccloses your throught when you swallow, you would choke in every swallow. The choking is a result of malfunctioning of the system. It is still poor design. Natural selection can make some amazing designs, but it can also work itself into a corner from where it can't make a major leap to a better design because it would have to cross a region of poorer design to get there. Attempts to automate design, so-called optimisation methods, can do the same thing. They can find a local optimum, rather than the global optimum. This is also why our retinas have the nerve connections on the wrong side, giving us a blind spot where the optic nerve passes through. I recall that another branch of the tree of life, which evolved eyes independently - possibly squids? - has the nerve connections on the correct side. A 50/50 chance that our ancestor got wrong.
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:55:45 GMT -4
Post by lordoftherings on Oct 3, 2005 8:55:45 GMT -4
who taught them to do so? It should cause someone to wonder. They don't need anyone: ants do things anyway, those that did certain things in particular circumstances lived longer and had more offspring who'd be more likely to act the same way, than those that didn't. Over time the only ants to hang around were those whose behaviours fitted their environment. Quite a lot of people have looked into this: "evolution" and "emergence" are a couple of starting points to search from. Who put the system for them, they way they acted to survive? Animals are amazing in how they think. If you study how they act to survive, then, it is amazing. Humans are said to have learnt things from animals like gathering food. That was one theory. A species of ants bring leaves , bite them, store them in moisture, so when fungus grows they eat the fungus. How do they know that they should store the leaves in moistureso fungus develops. Sure, they didn't learn by trial and error as humans did in this particular circumstance.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Oct 3, 2005 8:55:56 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Oct 3, 2005 8:55:56 GMT -4
Many scientists said they are firm believers in the presence of God. i wrote what they had to say. I will see if I can translate them bcz I read them in Arabic. regards I wouldn't bother: we all know of scientists who believe in god: some of us as personal friends. This thread has wandered far enough off topic as it is, and religious debates seldom end well.
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God
Oct 3, 2005 9:00:20 GMT -4
Post by lordoftherings on Oct 3, 2005 9:00:20 GMT -4
If you didn't have that peace of flesh (forgot its scientific name) that ccloses your throught when you swallow, you would choke in every swallow. The choking is a result of malfunctioning of the system. It is still poor design. Natural selection can make some amazing designs, but it can also work itself into a corner from where it can't make a major leap to a better design because it would have to cross a region of poorer design to get there. Attempts to automate design, so-called optimisation methods, can do the same thing. They can find a local optimum, rather than the global optimum. This is also why our retinas have the nerve connections on the wrong side, giving us a blind spot where the optic nerve passes through. I recall that another branch of the tree of life, which evolved eyes independently - possibly squids? - has the nerve connections on the correct side. A 50/50 chance that our ancestor got wrong. The whole issue is that you don't need to be better than what you are bcz it can make you worse. You don't need to see better than a squid . Imagine yourself seeing the atoms all around you, that will make you dizzy.
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