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God
Sept 29, 2005 18:37:25 GMT -4
Post by margamatix on Sept 29, 2005 18:37:25 GMT -4
I would be interested to know who believes in (a) God and who doesn't.
To show good faith, I will put my cards on the table straight away and declare that I am and always have been an atheist.
I suppose I am trying to discover who does, and who does not, have blind faith in the unproven.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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God
Sept 29, 2005 19:03:23 GMT -4
Post by Bob B. on Sept 29, 2005 19:03:23 GMT -4
I won't go so far as to say I'm an atheist, but I have serious doubts about the existence of God. I was raised in a Catholic family and once practiced that faith, but I have since changed my beliefs. I simply see no evidence for God's existence and I view religion as a relic of a time passed when faith in the supernatural explained things science could not.
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God
Sept 29, 2005 19:25:09 GMT -4
Post by nomuse on Sept 29, 2005 19:25:09 GMT -4
I don't find a need to invoke gods, spirits, or some nebulous "science beyond science" when discussion scientific matters. There is scarce little that can not be properly explained -- to at least the point where future behavior can be accurately predicted -- by using the methods we have. That is my beef with Intelligent Design; that if one wishes to ask if life could evolve on Mars, ID gives no method of answering the question. And my beef with various holistic medicines and psychic powers that are said to have an antipathy to scientific method; if there is no way to test if they work, why should I trust them?
Personally, I lean towards a Shinto form of animism, and I enjoy the pomp and circumstance of many of the world's major religions -- but only as spectacle. Neither God nor the promise/threat of an Afterlife guides my ethical behavior in this life.
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God
Sept 29, 2005 19:44:47 GMT -4
Post by rocketdad on Sept 29, 2005 19:44:47 GMT -4
A frightening thread, but I'll bite.
I believe in thermodynamics and gravity. Thermodynamics I understand, gravity is the mystery, that which I have faith in but don't understand. Isn't that religion? I burn candles and incense for it!
I guess I'm an agnostic-zen-pagan.
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God
Sept 29, 2005 22:00:15 GMT -4
Post by PeterB on Sept 29, 2005 22:00:15 GMT -4
Brought up as an Anglican.
Now I'm somewhere between a weak atheist and a strong agnostic. That is, I doubt any form of deity exists, but I also doubt it can be proven either way.
I dislike the connection that many religious people seem to require between belief in (a) god and their religion. In other words, even if I believe (a) god exists, why should that require me to worship it/him in some church or other place of worship? In that context, many religious beliefs could be seen as after-the-fact justifications for making My Group distinct from Your Group.
I dislike the implication by some Christians that God is the only reason they behave themselves. Do they have so little self-control that the threat of eternal damnation is all that keeps them in line? Do they think that the benefits we social animals gain from being nice to each other aren't reward enough?
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God
Sept 30, 2005 1:12:10 GMT -4
Post by Dead Hoosiers on Sept 30, 2005 1:12:10 GMT -4
Childhood believer in God; late teens to 26 atheist; born again at 28. Picked up a Bible one night when I had nothing else to do and started reading. The words lept off the page and burned themselves into my heart. I couldn't put it down, but I was still a couple of years from belief in Jesus. That's another story.
We don't serve God because we fear punishment. Jesus took care of that part. I and every other genuine believer I know obey and serve from love and gratitude for what He's done for us.
Don't jump on me just yet, but I need to say this. Catholocism is not Christianity. It's a pagan religion masquerading as Christianity. I only mention it so we don't have to do the crusades and inquisition thingy. They're two very different belief systems once you get past the names.
Hasn't anyone noticed that however much we learn or advance in science it never makes any difference in man's behavior? We're lying and stealing and rebelling within months of our birth. Our folks spend years trying to train us out of our utter self-absorption.
Question. How many of you atheists/agnostics have spent any considerable time actually reading the Bible? I admit that I had never read what God had to say during all the time I claimed He didn't exist. I thought I was one cool intellectual. Ha!
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God
Sept 30, 2005 1:22:31 GMT -4
Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 30, 2005 1:22:31 GMT -4
I'm agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I don't consider any book to be proof of a god... if I did I would have to wonder what makes the bible any more valid than the koran. They both claim that their god is the only god... they can't both be right.
Agnosticism seems like the best position to take, in my opinion, because even though I don't necessarily believe in a god I can't be 100% sure that there isn't one... therefore I can't easily say I'm an atheist.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Sept 30, 2005 2:50:33 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Sept 30, 2005 2:50:33 GMT -4
I've been an atheist pretty much always. I was quite fervent about it after a near-death experience in my teens, but I'm a lot more laid back about it now.
I share some of Peterb's thoughts on organised religion; worship seems a paltry payback for creating anything, much less a Universe of such size and grandeur, and if you are going to define your god as omniscient and omnipotent, then prayer seems distinctly futile. The whole thing does appear to be a manifestation of tribalism, which DH displays quite clearly in dissociating herself from Roman Catholicism.
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God
Sept 30, 2005 2:59:12 GMT -4
Post by PeterB on Sept 30, 2005 2:59:12 GMT -4
Dead Hoosiers said:
What about Orthodox Christianity.
It reminds me of the story about the 10th century Russian king (Sviatoslav?) who'd decided to give up paganism and take up a monotheistic religion. So he invited representatives of Islam and the Catholic and Orthodox churches to make their cases. In the end he was entranced by the Orthodox procedures, and Russia was Orthodox thereafter...
Incidentally, although I'm not a Christian, I'm still fascinated by Christian architecture, and visited many cathedrals when I was in England a few years ago. I'm also keen to visit Hagia Sophia in Istanbul and San Vitale in Ravenna for their beautiful mosaics.
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God
Sept 30, 2005 3:56:30 GMT -4
Post by gwiz on Sept 30, 2005 3:56:30 GMT -4
I was brought up and confirmed in the Anglican church, in which I now perform the role of the congregation's token atheist.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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God
Sept 30, 2005 4:04:47 GMT -4
Post by Al Johnston on Sept 30, 2005 4:04:47 GMT -4
Does this not mean you're destined for one of the more senior bishoprics? ;D
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God
Sept 30, 2005 5:44:19 GMT -4
Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 30, 2005 5:44:19 GMT -4
I try to stay out of these sort of conversations. Mainly because I have a very strong opinon when it comes to organisned Christiany and its rituals.
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God
Sept 30, 2005 7:40:57 GMT -4
Post by gwiz on Sept 30, 2005 7:40:57 GMT -4
Does this not mean you're destined for one of the more senior bishoprics? ;D Reminds me of the episode of "Yes, Prime Minister" where they're trying to select a new archbishop and they need a compromise candidate - one who can hold the middle ground between the bishops who belive in God and the bishops who don't.
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God
Sept 30, 2005 7:45:05 GMT -4
Post by papageno on Sept 30, 2005 7:45:05 GMT -4
Childhood believer in God; late teens to 26 atheist; born again at 28. Picked up a Bible one night when I had nothing else to do and started reading. Which Bible?[SNIP!] We don't serve God because we fear punishment. Jesus took care of that part. I and every other genuine believer I know obey and serve from love and gratitude for what He's done for us. But he made us and gave us free choice, right? Yet if we do not do as he wishes, he will send us here. Don't jump on me just yet, but I need to say this. Catholocism is not Christianity. It's a pagan religion masquerading as Christianity. I only mention it so we don't have to do the crusades and inquisition thingy. They're two very different belief systems once you get past the names. [SNIP!] Doesn't Catholicism fit the definition of Christianity? Aren't you and Catholics using the same Gospels? By the way, I was brought up as a Roman Catholic, but tend towards atheism.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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God
Sept 30, 2005 8:28:50 GMT -4
Post by Bob B. on Sept 30, 2005 8:28:50 GMT -4
I'm also keen to visit Hagia Sophia in Istanbul I've been there, it is a beautiful structure. I only spent one day in Istanbul but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it as a vacation spot.
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