Go Hillary!its not over till its over!

[RAF]

jason said:

...but she wouldn't be in the position she is.

...and Obama wouldn't be "in the position he is" if he wasn't black, and Mccain wouldn't be "in the position he is" if he hadn't been a "war hero".

Point is, if you really are looking for "excuses" (as you seem to be doing), then you most certainly will "find" them...so what??

[gillianren]

Say what you will about Hillary; at least she's never been busted for drunk driving, nor does she chalk up things that happened when she was forty to "youthful indiscretion."

I've been reading The Greatest Generation, and one of the people interviewed for it talks about respect for the Presidency. I have respect for the job, but I don't feel required to have respect for the person in it. Historically, I'm not alone in this. You can trace that belief back quite some time.

[Jason]

raf said:

jason said:

...but she wouldn't be in the position she is.

...and Obama wouldn't be "in the position he is" if he wasn't black, and Mccain wouldn't be "in the position he is" if he hadn't been a "war hero".

Point is, if you really are looking for "excuses" (as you seem to be doing), then you most certainly will "find" them...so what??

I'm just saying if you want a role-model, chose someone who is not defined publicly and politically primarily by who they are married to, which Mrs. Clinton, unfortunately for her, is.

At least McCain was himself a war hero, not the spouse of one, and at least Barack is himself black.

[RAF]

jason said:

At least McCain was himself a war hero, not the spouse of one, and at least Barack is himself black.

How does being a war hero or being black qualify that person to be president?

[Jason]

raf said:

jason said:

At least McCain was himself a war hero, not the spouse of one, and at least Barack is himself black.

How does being a war hero or being black qualify that person to be president?

It doesn't. You're missing the point.

Lionking said Mrs. Clinton could be a role model.
I said that she is only nationally prominent because of who she was married to, which meant that if you use her as your role model your are telling women "who you are married to is more important than your own acheivements."

Then others started bringing in irrelevencies like "the current president had family connections too" or "McCain wouldn't be a candidate if he weren't a war hero." Probably true in both cases, but irrelevent to whether or not Mrs. Clinton should be a role model for women.

I did point out that the distinction between McCain and Mrs. Clinton in this instance is that McCain is famous for something he actually did, not who he married.
Whether being a warhero qualifies you for being president, however, is also irrelevent to my topic.

[RAF]

jason said:

I said that she is only nationally prominent because of who she was married to...

You keep saying that. Too bad you havn't provided a convincing argument for it.

...which meant that if you use her as your role model your are telling women "who you are married to is more important than your own acheivements."

Just because that is what you believe doesn't mean it is what others believe.

You do understand that, right?

Probably true in both cases, but irrelevent to whether or not Mrs. Clinton should be a role model for women.

So you simply cannot understand why she would be a role model except for who she's married to?

Does anyone else see that as sexist??

[Jason]

raf said:

You keep saying that. Too bad you havn't provided a convincing argument for it.

Alright. What else is she nationally known for?

What other thing, besides the fact that she was first lady, convinced the citizens of New York to elect her their senator, and therefore led to her current Presidential campaign?

What great legislative acheivements has she overseen that made her a prominent leader in the Democratic party?

I'll give you a hint - there are none. Hilary Clinton owes her current prominence entirely to Bill Clinton's fame.

So you simply cannot understand why she would be a role model except for who she's married to?

Not at all. No doubt Mrs. Clinton has some very admirable qualities.

However, the reason lionking knows her name in the first place, and the thing drawing her to national attention, has nothing to do with any personal merit or ability on her own part.

Does anyone else see that as sexist??

RAF, you just don't like me, do you? It seems anytime I write a post you insist on reading it in the worst possible way. I am tempted to ignore any of your future posts, or begin insulting you whenever you insult me.

[RAF]

jason said:

RAF, you just don't like me, do you?

Just because I disagree with "most" of your opinions?

It might look that way because I don't post when I agree with you (and that has happened.)

But, no...you're not going to be able to use that as an "excuse".

[Ginnie]

Okay, maybe someone can answer this one:

Just watching CNN.
McCain Roman Catholic supporters in uproar because John McCain has been endorsed by Fundamentists.
I don't get it. Are they p*ssed because they like him too?
What's with this American politics?

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

jason said:

I think you missed my point.
I was saying that her current prominence is not due to any achievement of her own, but because of who her husband is. Therefore adopting her as a role model is in effect saying to women "your success depends on who you are married to."
Not exactly a feminist ideal.

Behind every great man...

Maybe Bill's success depended on whom he is married to.

[echnaton]

Not to be critical of Hillary, one suspects that she is responsible for a great deal of the ambition behind his Presidential bid.

[Jason]

A quote from Christopher Hitchens, the atheist, on Hugh Hewitt's radio show:

Hillary is the next president, because there's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power . . . people who
don't want the meeting to end, the people who just are unstoppable,
who only have one focus, no humanity, no character, nothing but the
worship of money and power. They win in the end.

[Jason]

Some important quotes from Obama on the possibility of a Clinton/Obama ticket:

Barack Obama said Hillary Clinton was trying to “hoodwink” voters by baiting him with invitations to become her vice president when he was ahead of her in the Democratic presidential primary delegate count.

“They are trying to hoodwink you,” Obama told supporters at a rally at Mississippi University.
“With all due respect, I’ve won twice as many states as Senator Clinton, I’ve won more of the popular vote than Senator Clinton, I have more delegates than Senator Clinton,” Obama said. “So I don’t know how somebody who is in second place is offering the vice presidency to the person who is in first place.”
Obama also warned voters, “Don’t think you can get both—you have to make a choice in this election,” possibly ruling out any possibility he would accept her as vice president.

And from the Clinton camp:

Clinton hinted she was open to taking Obama as vice president when she told voters in Mississippi last week, “I’ve had people say, 'Well I wish I could vote for both of you. Well, that might be possible some day.”
Likewise, former president Bill Clinton said while campaigning in Mississippi on Saturday that a Clinton-Obama ticket would be “an almost unstoppable force.”

Perhaps getting wind of Obama’s forthcoming refusal to become vice president, Clinton’s Communications Director Howard Wolfson tried to downplay the Clintons’ remarks in a conference call with reporters shortly before Obama’s Mississippi address.

Wolfson told reporters on the call Obama lacks the security credentials to become Vice President.

Obama doesn’t pass the “Commander-in-Chief test but there is a long way between now and Denver,” Wolfson said, suggesting Obama could prepare himself to become vice president before November.

“Senator Clinton will not choose any candidate who has not at the time of choosing passed the national security threshold, period,” Wolfson added.

So as I said earlier, I don't think a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket is likely to happen.

[bazbear]

I'm basically a liberal/moderate democrat...strong on defense though...BUT the present plan is to run the defense down and refit...I'm absolutely convinced the Army Guard changed the VT Army Guard brigade from armor to light mobile infantry because they needed those Abrams tanks.