Moon Hoax Theory Religion?

[politik]

The HBs hold onto their faith in the Apollo hoax like a Christian Fundamentalist holds onto his belief in Creation. There is no reasoning with Christian Fundamentalists. There is no real chance of convincing them of anything. They will believe what they want to believe, and whatever you say to them will be viewed as a challenge of their faith... something to be defeated, thwarted, etc... they see it as God himself sending someone to tempt them, and view themselves in the highest possible light if they are able to resist that temptation. Argument, to them, is not something where minds are changed... it's something where their faith is put to the test, and PASSING the test involves IGNORING logic and IGNORING reason, and finding some way to justify around those things, so their faith is still intact. To them, that is the purpose, and that is how you "win".

I still do not understand why the HBs still come here to try and prove to us that the landings were fake.

I'll just have to ask I guess! Stargazer: What exactly do you hope to accomplish by coming here trying to convince us that the moon landings were hoaxed?

[brotherofthemoon]

A few of the HB's I've read are religious fundamentalists. Just ask JayUtah about his experience on the IMDB.

Frankly, the idea that God created the universe is a lot easier to accept than the idea that NASA faked six Moon landings in the Nevada desert.

[snakeriverrufus]

What you say about xian fundamentalists is true, but to my mind HBs beliefs do not, quite, rise to religion. Unless HBs have a deity that I have not heard about?

[JayUtah]

I think the notion at play here is that religion is not the only thing out there that some people approach with an inappropriate dogmatic epistemology. It's not so much whether one believes in a deity as how one conceptualizes the belief and organizes his actions and attendant beliefs around it. In its most abstract it comes down to being unable to distinguish between belief and fact.

[Joe Durnavich]

I don't think conspiracy theorists believe as much as they disbelieve. Most religious people relish the opportunity to learn more about their god and the rest of his family and will discuss it at length (especially the ones that ring your doorbell). Most conspiracy theorists, on the other hand, have to be dragged kicking and screaming to a discussion about the conspiracy that they suspect exists, preferring instead to limit their "research" to casting doubt on the accepted account.

[JayUtah]

Well, while they disbelieve what is commonly accepted, many of them will cling as tenaciously to their alternate reality as a fundamentalist churchgoer clings to his beliefs.

[Joe Durnavich]

Yes, such parallels can be drawn, but the constrasts are just as telling. The accounts in the Bible ring true to the fundamentalist and serve as a basis for belief. A conspiracy theorist, in contrast, "smells a rat" in NASA's account and thereby believes that the moon landings are a trick played on him.

[gwiz]

There is no god but Kaysing and Sibrel is his prophet?

[3onthetree]

Hang on a minute. I thought the idea of this forum was to discuss aspects of the hoax Theory to test them against known facts yet if someone posts an idea or a supposition they are labeled a HB and people want you banned as if you had offended there god. Apollo. ;D
P.S I only posted this drivel coz i'm bored,I wish pepsi78 would come back.

[gwiz]

No-one has been banned for expressing a belief. The very few who have been banned broke forum rules, check the banned user thread.

This thread is a result of the general HB behaviour of posting pro-hoax arguments, seeing those arguments demolished, then saying that even without those arguments, nothing will change their beliefs.

Edit: I've checked back over your posts. Your attitude so far hasn't followed this pattern, for which we're grateful.

[Joe Durnavich]

I thought the idea of this forum was to discuss aspects of the hoax Theory to test them against known facts...

3onthetree illustrates my point. There is no "moon hoax theory" to discuss. A fundamentalist has a theory in hand and, if need be, can hit you on the head with it: his Bible. The conspiracists, however, have no theory to advance. An actual moon hoax theory would attempt to explain the act of the hoax itself. It might describe who gave the orders, where the video was shot, how the rock and soil samples were produced or acquired, and so on.

...yet if someone posts an idea or a supposition they are labeled a HB and people want you banned as if you had offended there god. Apollo.

Notice that what is being objected to is being "labeled a H[oax] B[eliever]". The last thing a conspiracist wants is the burden of supporting a belief, preferring instead to attack the Apollo legacy.

[linuxboatr]

Maybe it's not religion although the HBers cling to it as if it were. I think it stems from a variety of things. One is mistrust of the government (which I can understand completely), Hollywood notions of great, secret conspiracies despite the fact most conspiracies don't survive under their own weight due to the human desire to tell and brag. Third is many people see aspects of the Moon landings as going against their "common sense" because they lack the scientific knowledge to understand it and I think they'd rather try to rationalize things to fit their idea of how they think it should work rather than admit ignorance.

Admitting ignorance is a very hard thing for your average person to do, I think. You encounter it with religious fundamentalism because it many ways, it is ignorance personified and they are being challenged on it. The hardest thing for someone to do in my experience is say "I don't know". I work in a field (software development) where "I don't know" can happen a whole lot and I try to cultivate a culture that it is ok to admit it. But it is still hard and most people don't like or have the capacity for it.

I guess it is easier to cling to a conspiracy theory, fight the big, bad, evil government and marginalize those that have the knowledge (including those that give them all the conveniences of modern technology) than admit that they might be seriously lacking in knowledge.

Or I could be wrong and the HBers just like to jerk our chains.

I, for one, would like the thank the HBers and conspiracy theorists. I have learned more science reading this site (and others) because of them than I ever have in just general knowledge exploration. Such as the refutations for MoonMan. The thermodynamics lessons for MoonMan were well worth passing through his drivel. I didn't know those things and got to learn them. So my kudos to the HBers for that and even more for those that answer them.

Matt

[BertL]

Is there any chance of Stargazer responding to the question asked to him in the first post of this thread?

[gwiz]

I suppose clinging to beliefs in the face of the evidence is at least a characteristic shared by HBs and religious fundamentalists. The hoax theory has been around for quite a few years now, yet there is no sign that even the most easily debunked arguments have been abandoned. Stargazer can still come here with his "no stars" argument, which anyone with a manual camera can refute easily. The same goes for the non-parallel shadows and other "anomalies" of perspective, or the fill-in lighting of the shadowed side of an object provided by reflected light from the surface it's on. There are websites full of counter-examples taken on earth, which again anyone with a camera can check for themselves.

[Joe Durnavich]

I guess it is easier to cling to a conspiracy theory,...

What I have been wondering about out loud here is, what exactly is it that the conspiracists "cling to"? I suspect that if there were something that we can identify as them clinging to, their behavior would not seem so puzzling.

...fight the big, bad, evil government and marginalize those that have the knowledge (including those that give them all the conveniences of modern technology) than admit that they might be seriously lacking in knowledge.

Perhaps. It is difficult to say "I don't know" because then one appears ignorant. Conspiracists, though, seem hell-bent on being wrong. There is plenty of opportunity, of course, to criticize the big bad government on grounds based in fact. Embarrassment of appearing ignorant does not seem to be factor for them.