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Post by mosis2 on Apr 29, 2006 19:56:35 GMT -4
In the heretical book 'Dark Moon', on page 336, there are quotes from Eric Jones' transcripts of the Apollo missions, where Armstrong and Aldrin discuss how they used a rope and pulley to lift the moon rocks they had collected, up into the LM.
Aldrin "I guess one problem was that it tended to carry up dust? It didn't have a pulley, you just lifted at the top. Or did it have a pulley?"
Armstrong "It was a flat nylon strap, as I remember..."
Aldrin "Didn't it just go through the AOT guard, or did it have a pulley?"
Armstrong "I don't remember. It may have been some kind of a cylinder with a hook."
Need I say more?
The act of pulling a strap without a pulley is completely different than pulling a strap WITH a pulley... Obviously the direction you would pull in would be completely different for each method. And either there WAS a pulley, or there wasn't. And this WOULD have been thought about before a REAL mission to the moon, would it not? Or do you think the NASA scientists just said "Your mission is to collect loads of moon rocks, and then carry them in one hand while you attempt to jump up three feet onto the bottom rung of the ladder..."
In other words, they didn't plan for this because they never actually did it. So Armstrong and Aldrin couldn't remember that part of the mission, because it NEVER HAPPENED.
Any other explanations for this loss of memory?
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Post by Ranb on Apr 29, 2006 20:41:42 GMT -4
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they put a flat nylon strap through the AOT guard, then pulling on the strap would be like pulling on a rope through a pulley. The guard is in the overhead of the LM, and is round and smooth. What is the problem with this? There are photos of the AOT guard online. Did you look for them? Did you do anything other than read a quote out of a book?
Ranb
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Post by mosis2 on Apr 29, 2006 20:54:07 GMT -4
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they put a flat nylon strap through the AOT guard, then pulling on the strap would be like pulling on a rope through a pulley. The guard is in the overhead of the LM, and is round and smooth. What is the problem with this? You are wrong... And obviously a true believer! The problem is that both Armstrong and Aldrin couldn't remember if they used a pulley (whether the AOT guard or a special pulley)! The action of pulling a strap that is not going through a pulley, and one that IS going through a pulley, is totally different... I didn't need to. But nice of you to try to insinuate that it's somehow irrelevant because it's a 'quote in a book'. If I'd READ anything else, wouldn't that also have been a 'quote in a book', or a 'quote on a website', and therefore equally useless, in your eyes? How on earth could Armstron and Aldrin forget how they got the lunar rocks up into the LM? This is, after all, not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do! Therefore it would have been difficult, time consuming, and IMPORTANT, yet they both have forgotten how they did it... Sure. |
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Apr 29, 2006 21:59:14 GMT -4
From what I read in these quotes, I see no loss of memory regarding how they got the samples into the LM; they just can’t recall whether there was a pulley or not. I see this as a minor detail of insignificant importance.
I don’t see how you can say this. The motion required to hoist the samples would be the same regardless of whether the cord passed through a pulley or simply looped over the AOT guard, or through a hook, or whatever.
Are you aware that Apollo 11 collected only 22 kg of samples? That’s a whole 8 pounds in lunar gravity – not exactly a difficult task to perform.
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Post by twinstead on Apr 29, 2006 22:32:31 GMT -4
You are wrong... And obviously a true believer!
Nice, another know-it-all who thinks he knows everything there is to know about the Apollo program, and somehow has 'figured it all out', prepared to come on a board filled with experts and show them how brainwashed and stupid they are.
I can't wait.
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Post by Ranb on Apr 29, 2006 22:35:38 GMT -4
What exactly am I wrong about? The location of the AOT guard?
How is pulling a strap in a down-wards motion when it is through the AOT guard different than pulling a rope or strap through a pulley? Other than a possible greater resistance when using the AOT guard, pulling down on the strap or rope should be the same.
Why do you expect two men to remember in precise detail how things were done 36 plus years ago? Is it important that they are able to regurgitate every small detail like these?
I never tried to "insinuate that it's somehow irrelevant because it's a 'quote in a book' ." I wanted to know if you looked anywhere beyond the quote to find information that would confirm your ideas behind the lifting of the rocks into the LM.
Ranb
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Post by twinstead on Apr 29, 2006 22:37:49 GMT -4
I never tried to "insinuate that it's somehow irrelevant because it's a 'quote in a book' ." I wanted to know if you looked anywhere beyond the quote to find information that would confirm your ideas behind the lifting of the rocks into the LM. I suspect that asking him to do some basic research before he spouts off and actually think for himself is rather pointless. |
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Post by brotherofthemoon on Apr 29, 2006 22:42:26 GMT -4
Isn't that a bit like saying the Edmund Hillary never climbed Mt. Everest because he can't remember 50 years later how the flagstaff pulley worked once he reached the summit?  |
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Post by sts60 on Apr 29, 2006 23:35:38 GMT -4
When did the quoted exchange in the OP take place?
And yes, you can use some kind of loop as a change of direction, not just a pulley, especially for such relatively light loads. mosis2, do you dispute that? (BTW, I'm certified at the Operations level in technical rope rescue.)
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Post by nomuse on Apr 30, 2006 18:25:54 GMT -4
Technical rope rescue certified, eh? Man....since I took up climbing it seems other climbers are, well, " " out of the woodwork.
Did it tickle you the first time you realized gear is rated in KN? None of this easy-to-misinterpret "pounds" stuff for UIAA!
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MarkS
Earth
Why is it so?
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Post by MarkS on Apr 30, 2006 19:36:31 GMT -4
Have you ever purchased a car or a house or took a loan out for tuition? When you signed the papers, you were making a costly and long-lasting financial obligation. Do you remember what color of inkpen you used?
No? So you can't remember that part of your past, because it NEVER HAPPENED.
Any other explanations for this loss of memory?
(edit for spelling)
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Post by sts60 on Apr 30, 2006 21:47:33 GMT -4
Technical rope rescue certified, eh? Man....since I took up climbing it seems other climbers are, well, " " out of the woodwork.
Did it tickle you the first time you realized gear is rated in KN? None of this easy-to-misinterpret "pounds" stuff for UIAA!You'll be waiting a while if you need me to haul my 1.(ahem) kN up the rope. But that's what we have mechanical advantage for. Or better yet, just start at the top and lower on down. There was a pretty unique rescue in Pennsylvania not far from here, at the very top of a coal smokestack something like 300 m high. Three men were working on the lining when it caught fire and they were trapped on a small platform at the very tip. They were up there for a few hours, alternately huddling together for warmth in the freezing air and beating out the flames as their clothing caught fire. A nearby fire department technical rescue team picked them off the top into a Maryland State Police helicopter. "How was your day, honey...?" 
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Post by nomuse on Apr 30, 2006 22:07:55 GMT -4
Have you ever purchased a car or a house or took a loan out for tuition? When you signed the papers, you were making a costly and long-lasting financial obligation. Do you remember what color of inkpen you used? No? So you can't remember that part of your past, because it NEVER HAPPENED. Any other explanations for this loss of memory? (edit for spelling) I joined the Army in 1983. That's a life-changing (potentially even a life-ending) decision. I have no idea what color ink I used -- I just remember there were a LOT of forms. Purchased my first computer in 1984, for a serious chunk of cash (more than I've generally spent on a car). Still have it. I still remember the chip, the drive capacity, and how much RAM it had, but I have no idea what color ink I signed with or even the name of the store I bought it at. Trusting my life these days to a piece of rope, and I can tell you that it's a 10.5mm static of kernmantle construction, white with colored stripes. What color are the stripes? I have no idea. It's surprising the strange details you remember sometimes, but most of us concentrate on the important stuff. I think it's telling that Aldrin remembers the rope brought a lot of dust up with it. |
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Post by JayUtah on May 1, 2006 10:55:56 GMT -4
There is no presumption that the biochemical and neurological factors that contribute to natural memory loss are the slightest bit affected by the historical significance attributed to what is being remembered or forgotten.
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Post by sts60 on May 1, 2006 12:45:18 GMT -4
Or for the value - like Yo Yo Ma forgetting a million-dollar cello in the trunk of an NYC taxicab. (Yes, he got it back.)
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