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Post by grashtel on Oct 29, 2006 19:49:34 GMT -4
No, no, that's not cameron saying that. He's quoting some moke calls himself Hagbard Celine, HC for short. Cameron just hasn't figured out quoting yet. Thats good, and now I read back on the thread I see I should have known that (I've been following the thread), that will teach me to post while not fully awake. Though the fact that anyone can seriously believe that the Earth is hollow needs a serious dose of reality.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 29, 2006 21:47:53 GMT -4
The only come back I have for the level of lunicy is to debate him by claiming the Earth is actually Flat.
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Post by nomuse on Oct 29, 2006 23:00:47 GMT -4
Go for Earth being a sphere, but we are inside it; it's more topologically consistent.
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Post by Count Zero on Oct 30, 2006 0:19:32 GMT -4
This quote from HC caught my eye: (Emphasis added)
"Dipping your toe in the water?" Perhaps you can ask him just how many missions NASA "claims" to have "done", to what heights, and over what time period. Of course, he won't answer, and won't admit that he doesn't know. He just blandly assumes that NASA didn't do it.
Here is a partial list of the US space probes that measured and mapped the radiation environment from low Earth orbit, through the Van Allen Belts and cislunar space, and out into interplanetary space:
1958 February 1 - Explorer 1: Perigee: 347 km Apogee: 1,859 km. Discovered radiation belt around Earth. 1958 March 26 - Explorer 3: Perigee: 186 km Apogee: 2,799 km. Radiation & micrometeoroid data. 1958 July 26 - Explorer 4: Perigee: 257 km Apogee: 1,352 km. Mapped project Argus radiation. 1958 October 11 - Pioneer 1: Apogee 113854 km 1958 December 6 - Pioneer 3: Apogee 102,332 km. Discovered 2nd radiation belt 1959 February 17 - Vanguard 2: Perigee: 557 km Apogee: 3,049 km. Studied magnetosphere. 1959 March 3 - Pioneer 4: Lunar fly-by, Solar orbit. Measured radiation near the Moon. 1959 August 7 - Explorer 6: Perigee: 245 km Apogee: 42,400 km. First Earth photo; radiation data. 1959 September 18 - Vanguard 3: Perigee: 512 km Apogee: 3,413 km. Radiation & micrometeoroid data. 1959 October 13 - Explorer 7: Perigee: 523 km Apogee: 857 km. Magnetic field and solar flare data. 1960 November 3 - Explorer 8: Perigee: 394 km Apogee: 1,331 km. Ionospheric research. 1960 March 11 - Pioneer 5: Solar orbit. Mapped magnetic fields in interplanetary space. 1961 March 25 - Explorer 10: Perigee: 221 km Apogee: 181,100 km. Magnetic field data. 1961 April 27 - Explorer 11: Perigee: 480 km Apogee: 1,458 km. Gamma ray data. 1961 June 29 - Injun 1: Perigee: 869 km Apogee: 992 km. Radiation data. 1961 August 16 - Explorer 12: Perigee: 790 km Apogee: 76,620 km. Radiation and solar wind data. 1962 August 27 - Mariner 2: Solar orbit, Venus fly-by. Returned radiation and solar wind data. 1962 October 2 - Explorer 14: Perigee: 2,558 km Apogee: 96,229 km. Magnetosphere studies. 1962 October 27 - Explorer 15: Perigee: 306 km Apogee: 17,610 km. Radiation decay data. 1962 December 13 - Injun 3: Perigee: 240 km Apogee: 2,406 km. Radiation decay data. 1963 November 27 - Explorer 18: Perigee: 192 km Apogee: 197,616 km. Interplanetary radiation data. 1964 August 25 - Explorer 20: Perigee: 857 km Apogee: 999 km. Ionospheric research. 1964 October 4 - Explorer 21: Perigee: 191 km Apogee: 95,590 km. Magnetic field, radiation data. 1964 October 10 - Explorer 22: Perigee: 872 km Apogee: 1,053 km. Ionospheric and geodetic data. 1964 November 21 - Explorer 25: Perigee: 526 km Apogee: 2,319 km. Radiation data. 1964 November 28 - Mariner 4: Solar orbit, Mars fly-by. Returned radiation and solar wind data. 1964 December 21 - Explorer 26: Perigee: 284 km Apogee: 10,043 km. Radiation and solar wind data. 1965 April 29 - Explorer 27: Perigee: 932 km Apogee: 1,309 km. Ionospheric and geodetic data. 1965 May 29 - Explorer 28: Perigee: 229 km Apogee: 261,206 km. Magnetic field, radiation data. 1965 November 19 - Explorer 30: Perigee: 671 km Apogee: 856 km. Solar radiation data. 1965 November 29 - Explorer 31: Perigee: 505 km Apogee: 2,833 km. Ionospheric research. 1965 December 16 - Pioneer 6: Solar orbit. Studied Solar wind and Sun’s magnetic field. 1966 July 1 - Explorer 33: Perigee: 265,679 km Apogee: 480,762 km. Magnetic field, radiation data. 1966 August 17 - Pioneer 7: Solar orbit. Monitored Solar wind and cosmic rays. 1967 May 24 - Explorer 34: Perigee: 242 km Apogee: 214,379 km. Radiation, magnetic field data. 1967 June 14 - Mariner 5: Solar orbit, Venus fly-by. Returned radiation and solar wind data. 1967 July 19 - Explorer 35: Lunar orbit, Perigee: 484 km Apogee: 675 km. Earth magnetic tail measurements. 1967 December 13 - Pioneer 8: Solar orbit. Returned Solar radiation data. 1968 March 5 - Explorer 37: Perigee: 353 km Apogee: 433 km. Solar radiation data. 1968 August 8 - Explorer 40: Perigee: 679 km Apogee: 2,489 km. Radiation data. 1968 November 8 - Pioneer 9: Solar orbit. Returned Solar radiation data. 1969 June 21 - Explorer 41: Perigee: 80,374 km Apogee: 98,159 km. Cislunar radiation data. 1971 March 13 - Explorer 43: Perigee: 1,845 km Apogee: 203,130 km. Earth magnetosphere research. 1971 July 8 - Explorer 44: Perigee: 433 km (269 mi). Apogee: 632 km. Solar radiation data. 1971 November 15 - Explorer 45: Perigee: 272 km Apogee: 18,149 km. Studied magnetosphere, energetic particles. 1972 September 23 - Explorer 47: Perigee: 201,100 km Apogee: 235,600 km. Investigated cislunar radiation, Earth's magnetosphere, interplanetary magnetic field.
I count at least 41 missions in nearly 11 years before NASA sent the first men to the Moon in Apollo 8.
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Post by cameron on Oct 30, 2006 15:55:16 GMT -4
Hi guys, hows it hanging?
I once beat HC down to the point where he said People did go to the moon during apollo but it wasn't the famous Astronauts it was unknown substitutes. The reason for this is to save face, if anything went wrong the public wouldn't know about it.
Did you know people actually pay to go on Expeditions looking for the openings at the poles? One bunch are there right now. I tried to tell HC that something 1000 miles across is hard to hide but he reckons all the pictures we see are controlled by the government. Every now and again we go to war against the 6 million Nazis equipped with Ufos who are based there, We have even had a skirmish with these Nazis in Iraq don't you know. Of course not everyone knows this so keep it quite its all done in the utmost secrecy. Thanks for all the useful information you gentlemen are providing. Hc may stay ignorant forever but I'm learning a lot, cheers.
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Post by cameron on Oct 30, 2006 15:57:47 GMT -4
The only come back I have for the level of lunicy is to debate him by claiming the Earth is actually Flat. That would be hysterical and using the old flat earth society stuff you may well get away with it. I lay money you could tie him in knotts.
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Post by cameron on Oct 30, 2006 15:59:34 GMT -4
Go for Earth being a sphere, but we are inside it; it's more topologically consistent. One claiming hes wrong its flat. Another claiming its a sphere, but we all live inside it. ;D
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Post by Count Zero on Nov 1, 2006 4:56:13 GMT -4
Good job using the probe list (twice!), but then you totally blew it by posting the fake hoax article right after that. This easily gives him a conversational change of topic when what you really need is to let him squirm in the glare of his ignorance. As they say in politics, "Stay on message." Delete that post, if you can.
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Post by cameron on Nov 1, 2006 6:49:53 GMT -4
Will do
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Post by cameron on Nov 2, 2006 7:35:46 GMT -4
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Post by tofu on Nov 2, 2006 10:10:15 GMT -4
So just to review
HC: Apollo is OBVIOUSLY a fake because NASA didn't send enough probes to learn about the radiation environment. cameron: *posts list of probes* HC: Uh well, I knew about those probes, but they are fake too!
Bull! If he knew about them then he wouldn't have said "not enough probes" he would have said, "this conspiracy started decades earlier - they knew in 1958 that they would need to fake apollo, so they started faking space probes then."
Bull. Bull. Bull.
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Post by sts60 on Nov 2, 2006 10:25:21 GMT -4
41 missions? It does sound like a lot; enough to make an entirely accurate and thorough survey of the new frontier of space. But unfortunately that’s not the case. If it was the case then I’m sure that modern science would have a total, completely and precise level knowledge of what the Van Allen belts are, and their nature. As I have shown above, it does not.
Of course we don't have a "total, completely and precise level knowledge" of the near-Earth environment, any more than we do of the ocean. But we certainly have a sufficient level of knowledge to operate there with reasonable confidence.
I work for a commercial satellite manufacturer. Our engineers use space environment data largely developed by NASA. If this information was bogus, our satellites would quickly go awry and no one would buy them. The same goes for all the other spacecraft builders. Yet tens of billions of dollars of commerce every year is based on them.
I'm no more impressed by his handwaving than his embarrassing lack of knowledge about space.
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Post by Jason Thompson on Nov 2, 2006 10:28:38 GMT -4
Bull! If he knew about them then he wouldn't have said "not enough probes" he would have said, "this conspiracy started decades earlier - they knew in 1958 that they would need to fake apollo, so they started faking space probes then."
That's how to tell a rational person from an irrational one. A rational person who makes an argument shown to have been made in ignorance will take the new information and assimilate it into his views and adjust them accordingly. This guy is obviously doing the exact opposite, taking new information and desperately trying to fit it to his preconceived conclusions.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Nov 2, 2006 16:23:44 GMT -4
Of course we don't have a "total, completely and precise level knowledge" of the near-Earth environment, any more than we do of the ocean. But we certainly have a sufficient level of knowledge to operate there with reasonable confidence.
You know, rogue waves have only really just been confirmed by science. We still don't know what causes them, whenthey will appear, or how to avoid and protect against them. Does that mean that all shipping for the past 2,500 years has been hoaxed?
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politik
Venus
on a crusade against ignorance
Posts: 83
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Post by politik on Nov 2, 2006 16:37:54 GMT -4
HC is beyond debating. He isn't one who thinks small about his conspiracies. He is a David Icke follower and as such, anything and everything the government does or says is dis-information.
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