The C-Rock is dead!

[Kiwi]

It has been killed off by the new scans which don't show the letter "C".
Hi-res copy, 1069 kb:
www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a16/AS16-107-17446HR.jpg
(Remove the HR if you want the smaller, 228 kb copy.)

Should we hold a funeral?

Don't scrap your old copies with the "C". No doubt debates will rage about it sometime in the future and the hoax-promoters will claim that NASA has got wise and touched it out, which they have already claimed about the scans from prints that didn't show the "C".

Note also that the fiducial to the right of the antenna hasn't disappeared behind the white part in the hi-res copy. It's still there, just as we would expect, but not as visible over the white, where light would have bled around the tiny area taken up by the fiducial's arm.

[BertL]

The anomalies have been edited out, silly. What else do you think is happening?

[JayUtah]

The C-rock argument died years ago, but the its corpse has been flopping around since then, energized (as always) by the resurgence of new conspiracists who run across it and can't be bothered to see whether it's been answered.

Not one digital copy taken from a transparency has the mark on the rock. This has always been the case. The only digital image that bears the mark is one scanned from a print at LPI. The print has been found and indeed has the mark on it. Examined microscopically, it is fully consistent with dust contamination during the printing process. But the fact remains, and is quite important, that the mark cannot be found on any transparency, new or old. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the mark appeared in the original scene.

Of course the scanned print made the rounds of conspiracy theorists, who naturally considered it the authoritative source for the photo, even when they made no attempt at all to verify its provenance. When debunkers produced the pristine copies, conspiracists immediately -- and without any evidence -- accused NASA of airbrushing out the mark. As if that would fix anything!

Conspiracists try to buttress their interpretation in a number of silly ways.

There is a C on the ground in front of the rock.

The enlargement shows it's just a clump of regolith. In the tiny JPEGs passed around among conspiracists, it might look like a C.

The letter C is used on movie sets to mark the center(line) of the stage.

Movie sets have no centerlines.

Marks are often made on the floor of movie sets, usually to show where the actor must stand in order to be in focus. They are almost never used to position props or set pieces; that's the job of the continuity assistant director, who uses Polaroid photographs to record the positions of objects on the sets. Marks are made on movie sets are tiny; usually made in colored chalk that blends in with the ground enough not to be seen, or using colored spiking tape which is similarly colored and only a quarter inch wide. Spikes on movie sets are merely lines, not elaborate annotations.

The letter C is used in scenic design drawings to mark the centerline.

Movie scenery has no centerline. And the annotation for stage drawings is an elided CL, not C.

The C on the rock is a prop marking.

I've built props for film and theater for 20 years and I've never heard of marking a prop in such an obviously visible way. In fact, I've never heard of marking a prop at all. It is the job of the property master to know which prop is which without needing such marks. And when the prop is stored offstage it is kept in a labeled box or a labeled section of a prop table.

The C on the ground means "Put the C rock here".

Anyone who tried to manage properties like that sure wouldn't be working at any theater or production company with which I'm affiliated. That's the height of stupidity.

And what has been even more ludicrous for years and years is the fact that the other photograph of that same rock does not show a C in any version, digital or photographic. Why do conspiracists pretend that photo doesn't exist?

My own experiments with the fiducials in 70mm transparencies show that both shrinking a non-compressed digital image and compressing a full-sized digital image will have some effect on the fiducials. When both processes are applied, it will very often obliterate the fiducial entirely over a bright patch.

[showtime]

It isn't the first time they tried to bury this...

[Bob B.]

jayutah said:

There is a C on the ground in front of the rock.

The C on the rock is a prop marking.

The C on the ground means "Put the C rock here".

Something else that has always bothered me about this conspiracy argument is that it is a corruption of the original claim. Isn’t it Ralph Rene who first came up with the argument that the C is a prop marking? And didn’t he also claim that the practice is to place cards on the ground with letters on them to mark the position of the various props? Once the prop is positioned the card is picked up.

It wasn’t until later that some conspiracist happened to notice what vaguely resembles a C etched into the ground. But placing marks on the ground is not what was claimed by Rene to be the standard theater practice. If Rene’s alleged source is correct, then there shouldn’t be a C on the ground. By claiming the C is a location marking, the conspiracists are contradicting their original source.

Furthermore, I believe Rene has claimed the rock is a paper mache prop. I find it extremely unlikely that a prop maker would permanently inscribe into the prop an identifying mark. If you were to mark the props as Rene claims, wouldn’t you far more likely stick a label on the rock?

[AtomicDog]

Showtime, if you don't want to discuss the hoax theory, perhaps your time would be better spent elsewhere.

[gillianren]

Poor, stupid, vicious Lee.

[JayUtah]

It isn't the first time they tried to bury this...

It isn't the first time a conspiracy theorist tried to hide his ignorance by going off-topic.

[JayUtah]

Isn’t it Ralph Rene who first came up with the argument that the C is a prop marking?

Yes.

And didn’t he also claim that the practice is to place cards on the ground with letters on them to mark the position of the various props?

That's what I'm not sure about.

It wasn’t until later that some conspiracist...

Bennett and Percy.

But placing marks on the ground is not what was claimed by Rene to be the standard theater practice.

Neither one is standard theater practice.

By claiming the C is a location marking, the conspiracists are contradicting their original source.

Yep. And if you want to watch Ralph Rene change colors, ask him what he thinks about people like Bart Sibrel and David Percy perverting "his" arguments for their own purposes.

I find it extremely unlikely that a prop maker would permanently inscribe into the prop an identifying mark.

As a long-time propmaker, I can't possibly agree more. Propmakers are highly disinclined to spoil the fidelity of their creations, especially when (as in this case) fidelity is paramount.