Why the earth is the center of the universe

[echnaton]

Probably a seagull poster. I don't think we will see much of him. At any rate, he needs to demonstrate a level knowledge of physics that would be highly unusual in geocentric beleivers before he can be taken seriously.

[lionking]

Oh, and lionking, that only works if you believe God gave the Jews or Christians the knowledge in the first place. Whereas if you believe it's a process of human discovery that keeps progressing as we work on it, it's clear that, in the Middle Ages, the average Jewish population in Europe was more likely to be educated than the average Christian population in Europe. What does that mean, regarding your belief in God's plan?

I mean the time at which the religions came. I believe that it came according to ppl's preparedness. The prophits weer at that time the most refined.

[lionking]

As for the likes of the original poster, I posted a link previously as what do they believe and how they relate it to "true" science www.fixedearth.com/ you might want to check what they think

[lionking]

www.fixedearth.com/subject_areas/subject_area_2.htm

they touched on NASA.... what do you think Jay...get them..

[Bill Thompson]

What is your criteria for belief? Do you believe something because it is "the right thing to do" or because it is sound mathematically?

tradosaurus said:

I believe in an earth centered universe because my eyes do not deceive me when I see the sun move in the sky. As well God has informed us through the most wisest man in the universe (yes even wiser than Stephen Hawkings).

What of the experiments you can do for yourself? What do you make of the fact that a free-swinging pendulum will not simply swing back and forth in a direct line if it is left swinging for hours on end? Instead it shows clearly that the Earth is rotating under it.

You desire to view the bible literally does not stand against simple observation of the real world.


=================

Wait, is he gone?

Drat.

Changing a mind would give my life meaning

[PhantomWolf]

I guess that means he doesn't have an answer about Stellar Parallax.... oh well.

[Jason]

phantomwolf said:

I guess that means he doesn't have an answer about Stellar Parallax.... oh well.

Epicycles.

[Bill Thompson]

"... is a very dangerous thing, not only by irritating all the philosophers and scholastic theologians, but also by injuring our holy faith and rendering the Holy Scriptures false."

So facts do not matter. What is most important is that we follow a morally structured life and adhere to the letter of scripture. Not to do so will be chaos.

The passages in the Bible which speaks of the moon and the sun standing still in the sky is only possible if the sun and the moon travel across the dome of the sky. To say that bodies have gravity is to say that if the moon stopped its motion, it would fall to the earth. Also for the sun to stop moving it would mean that the Earth simply stood still and this would cause a release of kinetic energy such that all living things at the equator would go supersonic and there would be destruction on an imaginable level.

So the best choice is to tell our congregations to just take the Bible for its literal interpretation and stop asking questions. I suggest we use guilt as a tool. If they question, just tell them they have less faith.

This has worked so far.

[reynoldbot]

Whoo doggie I was wondering when we would get some kooky religious nut arguing for geocentricism on this forum.

When I first started reading his post I thought it was going to turn into a flat earth argument. He certainly hasn't left that off the table though, and I wouldn't be surprised if he brought it up. Flat earth theories are the most exciting to debate since they usually claim that all science is a government lie, thus trumping any scientific argument you try to bring up. And by exciting, I mean exciting in the way that a root canal is exciting.

[Jason]

billthompson said:

Also for the sun to stop moving it would mean that the Earth simply stood still and this would cause a release of kinetic energy such that all living things at the equator would go supersonic and there would be destruction on an imaginable level.

This seems a rather odd tactic to take when arguing against miracles. "Sure God could stop the Earth from turning, but what would he do about the kinetic energy of the Earth's inhabitants?"
Aren't we talking about an omnipotent being here?

[PhantomWolf]

Epicycles.

Doesn't work, unless you want to explain why the universe rotates about the Solar System baripoint and not the Earth itself.

[Bill Thompson]

jason said:

billthompson said:

Also for the sun to stop moving it would mean that the Earth simply stood still and this would cause a release of kinetic energy such that all living things at the equator would go supersonic and there would be destruction on an imaginable level.

This seems a rather odd tactic to take when arguing against miracles. "Sure God could stop the Earth from turning, but what would he do about the kinetic energy of the Earth's inhabitants?"
Aren't we talking about an omnipotent being here?

True but at the same time, the observable universe is one of cause, action, physics, and mathematics. Something happening that breaks all laws of physics for the benefit of a tiny battle (if you are familiar with the scripture) seems out of character for omnipotence. So although anything is possible, not everything is plausible. It does not fit with what we see, hear, and study in the natural universe today or in our lifetime. If God respects rules, he would not break them even to save a child. That would be unfair. And that is also out of character for omnipotence. The most likely explaination is that, (as I have said in dabates of this passage, by the way) the battle seemed to have lasted for days rather than the "sun stopping in the sky" since the sun really doesn't travel around the earth anyway. Science is about what the most logical explaination is. And you are reading what a scientist has written -- even if I am just a computer scientist.

[PhantomWolf]

Actually just as a point of interest, you don't have to stop the Earth moving to have the sun become stationary in the sky, you just have to change a few angles to make the Earth's rotation and orbit about the sun approximately equal periods for a short time. As for complaining that such an act would break the laws of nature, well by definition anything supernatural breaks the laws of physics. To say that God can exist, but he has to obey the laws of physics and if he doesn't, that's unfair, seems just a little silly to me.

[Jason]

phantomwolf said:

Epicycles.

Doesn't work, unless you want to explain why the universe rotates about the Solar System baripoint and not the Earth itself.

Ah well. It's the best solution the geocentrists came up with.

[Jason]

billthompson said:

True but at the same time, the observable universe is one of cause, action, physics, and mathematics. Something happening that breaks all laws of physics for the benefit of a tiny battle (if you are familiar with the scripture) seems out of character for omnipotence.

So you're basically saying "God doesn't care enough about us to use his power to help us." Right?
That's a frightening thought.