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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 7, 2009 19:06:45 GMT -4
I don't know anything about Rene's use of potentially intoxicating substances. However, he has indeed claimed that he is the originator of the Moon hoax claims, and that later authors such as Sibrel and David Percy have stolen his material and are making commercial use of it without acknowledging him. He resents that they seem to have been more successful at it than he has. Whether any of that is true, it is the reason Rene never agreed to appear on any television program on which some of the other conspiracy theorists were to be represented. Interesting. Perhaps a thread entitled "Surprising facts on Hoax Proponants" is in store. This ought to show that the hoax is more about attention and profit than disclosing The Truth TM
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Post by Data Cable on Jan 7, 2009 20:43:23 GMT -4
If he is dead, at least they aren't saying he was killed by NASA death squads. If they do, it'll just be to distract everyone from the fact that they killed Rene because he was about to reveal the truth about the hoax.
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Post by ineluki on Jan 8, 2009 8:01:25 GMT -4
I got a better idea; Rene isn't dead. He just went back to his home planet. I doubt that, they exiled him for a reason.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 9, 2009 18:21:43 GMT -4
So rather than turning his obit into an argument I thought I'd note these here. You know it's a major shame that he died without understanding the truth, these points are for the most part easily answered with little more than a basic knowledge of the Apollo record and science. • Astronauts (whom he called “astronauts”) could not have survived the radiation that they would have been exposed to while passing through the Van Allen radiation belt. Which we know is untrue, the radiation levels in the belt are well known and the amount of and type of material in the CM wall was enough to shield against the majority of the particles in the belts, and limited exposure meant low dosages ftom what did get through. • Photos taken on the moon do not show stars in the background. Probably the most debunked argument of the lot. • He pointed out the letter "C" on a rock in a photo insisting it was a Hollywood prop rock. Which has been shown to have been a hair on the photographic paper of one print. • The gloves on the Apollo space suits would have expanded in the vacuum of space to the point where they would be immobile. Unless of course the claimant has the pressure in the gloves wrong and they were specially engineered to have constant volume joints, oh they were weren't they.... • A camera panned upwards to catch Apollo 16's Lunar Lander lifting off the Moon. Who did the filming? Easily found in the Apollo Records, a guy called Ed Fendell who was sitting in mission control and had been remote controlling the camera the entire time on Apollo 15, 16, and 17. • One NASA picture from Apollo 11 is looking up at Neil Armstrong about to take his giant step for mankind. The photographer must have been lying on the planet surface. If Armstrong was the first man on the Moon, then who took the shot?Except that there are no photos of Armstrong decending, the Astronaut in the photo is BUZZ and it was taken by Armstrong. • The pressure inside a space suit was greater than inside a football. The astronauts should have been puffed out like the Michelin Man, but were seen freely bending their joints.There are really two claims here, first the pressure was more than a football, and second that the suit would have puffed up. First, the pressure wasn't greater then a football. The NFL guidelines say the pressure in a football should be 11 and 13 psi. NASA states that the pressure in the suir was the partial pressure of O2, about 3-4 psi, a third of that in a football. Next, the expansion of the suit would only result is the whiz-kid engineers at ILC Industries hadn't thought of this when designing the suits, they did and so used special joints and restraint layers. Amazing what you can learn by reading the history. • The Moon landings took place during the Cold War. Why didn't America make a signal on the Moon that could be seen from Earth? The PR would have been phenomenal and it could have been easily done with magnesium flares.This really is a case of "If I ran the zoo." Of course the amount of magnesium flares required to produce a visible light on the moon would not have been "Easy" to take, nor set off safetly. • Text from pictures show only two men walked on the Moon during the Apollo 12 mission. Yet the astronaut reflected in the visor has no camera. Who took the shot?Except that the reflected Astronaut does have a camera, it's on his chest, exactly where it should be, it's just the Rense never figured out where it was supposed to be. • The flags shadow goes behind the rock so doesn't match the dark line in the foreground, which looks like a line cord. So the shadow to the lower right of the spaceman must be the flag. Where is his shadow? And why is the flag fluttering?This consists of five assumptions. This is the image in question. The shadow of the pole should appear straight and visible regardless of the terrain. That the shadow seen to the right is the flag, not John Young's and that the flag is moving. On the first, this is obviously false just by looking at the rest of the shadow, especially where it goes into the crater. If you cover the crater edge, you see exactly the same disjointedness as you see at the rock. The difference is that the rock and its shadow disguise the lowering of the terrian so you can't see the line extending from the pole, meaning that the dark line isn't a cable, it's the pole's shadow. By the way, another assumption, the pole's shadow passes over the top of the rock, not behind it. With that sorted, we now know that the large shadow on the ground which isn't connected to the pole's is John Young's. It's not connected to his feet because he's off the ground. The flag's shadow can be seen on the very edge of the image, but most of it is out of the shot. Finally, how can you tell if the flag is fluttering? It's a still shot. The jumps were captured on TV and the flag is quite obviously still, as well as the fact that photos of the flag before and later show the same shape. This means it was not moving. • How can the flag be brightly lit when its not facing any light? The same way they do on Earth, nylon is translucent and lights up when lit from either side. • And where, in all of these shots, are the stars? Maybe this is whay it's the most debunked, they ask it multiple times. Check out Exposure settings. • The Lander weighed 17 tons yet the astronaut's feet seem to have made a bigger dent in the dust.This is probably the most difficult of the lot as it requires MATH and PHYSICS to understand! The answer is rather simple when the calculation is done. To put it simply, the weight of an astronaut and gear distributed over the sole of one boot as occures when walking, creates slightly more pressure than the weight of the LM distributed over the surface area of its four landing pads. This means that while the astronaut plus gear is lighter overall, his mass is focused entirely onto a single point meaning greater pressure and thus deeper footprints, while the pressure from the mass of the LM is spread out and so each point receives less pressure on it. It's like the difference between being hit by a tennis racket and a cane. The tennis racket is heavier so has more energy, but that energy is spread out over a large area and so hurts less than the lighter cane which applies its energy to a much smaller area.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Jan 10, 2009 10:00:38 GMT -4
A personal favourite flag picture: it shows the translucent effect quite well...
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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 10, 2009 22:18:05 GMT -4
Also concerning this claim is that no one that works in the film industry, or any related field, has been able to support Rene's assumption that props are labeled with letters.
Rene obvious never looked at the numerous photos from the shuttle and ISS. Nor has he seen the images from the Voyager probes, Galileo, Cassini, Messenger, Deep Impact, or New Horizons, just to name a few.
Can someone please make a YouTube video that shows Apollo isn't the only mission that lacks stars in the images?
BTW, the HBs still complain when shown images with stars taken on the moon, from the Apollo 16 mission.
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Post by JayUtah on Jan 11, 2009 0:53:19 GMT -4
Also concerning this claim is that no one that works in the film industry, or any related field, has been able to support Rene's assumption that props are labeled with letters. Or, in fact, labelled at all.
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Post by laurel on Jan 11, 2009 1:34:24 GMT -4
BTW, the HBs still complain when shown images with stars taken on the moon, from the Apollo 16 mission. Really? What are the HB complaints about those pictures?
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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 11, 2009 8:09:45 GMT -4
Well, and example would be Straydog's complaints. To sum them up;
-they could've been taken in LEO
-the Earth could've been added in by SFX
-they don't look like the images from the Clemintine probe's images of the solar cornoa taken when the sun is behind the Earth (he refers to images taken by the star tracker cameras)
I recall Cosmored (aka, DavidC) say the images look like Earth based images.
So, in other words, HBs just make excuses about these images.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
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Post by Bob B. on Jan 11, 2009 12:45:52 GMT -4
-they could've been taken in LEO I recall Cosmored (aka, DavidC) say the images look like Earth based images. And yet they complain the astronauts should have taken photos of stars while on the Moon. It looks to me like they're admitting there's no point to such photos because star photos can be easily obtained from LEO. Sounds like one to add to the HB Contradictions thread.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 12, 2009 7:38:08 GMT -4
I believe I experience a similar phenomenon.
I notice more pressure occurs when my dog, a mini pin, is standing on me than when he's laying down. Same with my cat, especially when she jumps off of me, putting all her weight (and it's a bit of weight for a cat) on her back feet.
I imagine the phenomenon with the weight distribution of the LM vs the astronauts is an extenstion of this occurance.
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Jan 12, 2009 11:39:47 GMT -4
It's why getting hit by a foam ball, rather then a needle of the same speed and mass, hurts less.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 13, 2009 20:17:02 GMT -4
I believe I experience a similar phenomenon. I notice more pressure occurs when my dog, a mini pin, is standing on me than when he's laying down. Same with my cat, especially when she jumps off of me, putting all her weight (and it's a bit of weight for a cat) on her back feet. I imagine the phenomenon with the weight distribution of the LM vs the astronauts is an extenstion of this occurance. This is eactly it. When your pug or cat is standing on you, their mass is focused through the area of four small points, their paws. When they are lying on you that mass is spread out over the entire surface of their body, thus reducing the pressure that is applied to any single point.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Jan 14, 2009 7:56:08 GMT -4
Mini pin, not a pug, PW. Pugs are too ugly looking for my tastes!
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Post by Ginnie on Jan 14, 2009 17:18:43 GMT -4
I believe I experience a similar phenomenon. I notice more pressure occurs when my dog, a mini pin, is standing on me than when he's laying down. Same with my cat, especially when she jumps off of me, putting all her weight (and it's a bit of weight for a cat) on her back feet. I imagine the phenomenon with the weight distribution of the LM vs the astronauts is an extenstion of this occurance. This is eactly it. When your pug or cat is standing on you, their mass is focused through the area of four small points, their paws. When they are lying on you that mass is spread out over the entire surface of their body, thus reducing the pressure that is applied to any single point. ...hmmm...sex kind of works that way sometimes too...
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