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Post by trevor on Feb 16, 2009 4:37:50 GMT -4
Hi All,
I was speaking to my brother's parents-in-law yesterday and they were going on about the Jewish Lobby.
They seem to believe that basically the reason the US is so pro Jewish is because the US government is controlled by the lobby.
No one can be elected into power without the lobby's say so. Including the President.
It sounds like a lot of CT bullshtein to me, they insist they are not antisemitic just "anti barbaric" but they sure did dump alot of accusations on the Jews - including the old 'Jews did the 911attacks"chestnut.
Does anybody have any views on this?
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Post by PeterB on Feb 16, 2009 5:36:37 GMT -4
Hi All, I was speaking to my brother's parents-in-law yesterday and they were going on about the Jewish Lobby. They seem to believe that basically the reason the US is so pro Jewish is because the US government is controlled by the lobby. No one can be elected into power without the lobby's say so. Including the President. It sounds like a lot of CT bullshtein to me, they insist they are not antisemitic just "anti barbaric" but they sure did dump alot of accusations on the Jews - including the old 'Jews did the 911attacks"chestnut. Does anybody have any views on this? Eh. It's the same old story. If it mattered enough to me to rock the boat, I'd ask them if they have any evidence, or if it's something that "everyone knows". I understand there is something of a Jewish Lobby in American politics. But there are also all sorts of other lobby groups in American politics. How does this Jewish lobby trump all the others? As for September 11, none of the conspiracy theories holds any water, whether conspiracies of the US Government or otherwise. End of story. |
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Post by Obviousman on Feb 16, 2009 6:00:10 GMT -4
IMO: The Jewish lobby in American politics is quite powerful, and can manipulate US politics to a great degree... but as Peter has pointed out, there are also many other powerful lobbyist groups (unions, christian, etc).
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Post by echnaton on Feb 16, 2009 8:25:51 GMT -4
US foreign policy toward specific countries is in a large part driven by the desires of immigrants from the country or there decedents, where that group makes up a large population. Thus the exceptionally strong stand against Cuba. For Israel, there is not a large immigrant population of course, but a large domestic population with a similarly strong interest in the policy. It is a large and strong presence in foreign policy because it is well organized and tightly focused on the issue, but certainly not all powerful.
However a number of fundamentalist christian groups are also very strongly pro Israel and support lobbing efforts on the countries behalf. Between the two, it makes a powerful force to shape policy. Many of the Christian groups are driven by reading the Book of Revelation and feel Israels existence is a requirement for the end times to come so God's Kingdom can be established on earth.
A third wing of support for Israel is Conservative Republicans. Up through the 1950's virtually all "conservative" political groups had a strong anti-Semitic undercurrents. It limited their political clout. William F Buckley, the founder of the movement that became the Goldwater and Regan styles of conservatism, realized that to overcome the association with the past required a strong support for Israel. That support was sufficient to make alliances with Jewish groups and deflect criticism of anti-Semitism.
So while these groups may have different motivations, they have similar tactical goals in the present that result in one of the strongest blocks in influencing foreign policy. It really is a pretty diverse movement.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 16, 2009 17:16:17 GMT -4
If the jewish lobby were all-powerful, wouldn't Gore have won the 2000 election? After all, his Vice President pick was a Jew.
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Post by trevor on Feb 16, 2009 17:32:33 GMT -4
Ah you see how clever they are - fooled you didn't they!
You see this brings me to another point, part of the power of the Lobby and how they use it is supposed to be like this;
Anybody wishing to run for senate, governor, president etc. is presented to the lobby, who ask the candidate their stance on the Israeli situation. Depending on their answers they are either supported or not or can have smear campaigns against them.
My point is does it matter how much support a person gets? Surely the vote is what decides who gets in regardless of the amount of funding that person gets. ie do huge campaign funds automatically mean votes?
And finally if you and I know of this lobby then surely those in government know about them, so when 'presented' to the lobby for 'the' question wouldn't they just give the answer they needed to to get their support? Isn't that politics?
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Post by Data Cable on Feb 16, 2009 23:26:22 GMT -4
Surely the vote is what decides who gets in regardless of the amount of funding that person gets. ie do huge campaign funds automatically mean votes? I'd suppose that depends on if you believe voters have any actual influence on "the vote." |
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Post by PeterB on Feb 17, 2009 6:32:36 GMT -4
Ah you see how clever they are - fooled you didn't they! Yes, well, we know an argument is in trouble if the opposite position would also prove the point. Just look at the Apollo Hoax Contradictions thread. Do your brother's parents-in-law think that Lieberman not becoming VP was all part of the plot? I think they do. Have a look at the Wikipedia entry on the 2008 Presidential election. Somewhere on that page there's a chart showing the amount spent on advertising and the number of votes won by all the candidates, including minor parties. If I remember correctly, the advertising cost per vote was surprisingly consistent. Obviously these people have a Truth-O-Matic 3000, in the presence of which prospective candidates just can't help but tell the truth.  |
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 17, 2009 12:39:09 GMT -4
Obviously these people have a Truth-O-Matic 3000, in the presence of which prospective candidates just can't help but tell the truth. Where can I get one of those? |
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Post by PeterB on Feb 20, 2009 1:23:29 GMT -4
Obviously these people have a Truth-O-Matic 3000, in the presence of which prospective candidates just can't help but tell the truth. Where can I get one of those? Probably the same place you get one of those Hoax-O-Matic 4000 Radiation Ovens. ;-) |
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Post by trevor on Feb 20, 2009 4:07:39 GMT -4
Oh. how droll |
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