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Post by Jason Thompson on Jun 16, 2010 8:35:54 GMT -4
You're really not following this, are you? I asked you why you posted the statement that there were no unmanned US lunar landings. You said it was a mistake. Fine. Problem solved.
We all know the history of lunar exploration and the arguments the hoax believers use. No-one here has actually presented those arguments as if they hold any water, but you seem to be tearing into them as if you're discussing it with people who actually believe that stuff. You're not. No-one on this thread at all is actually a hoax believer.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jun 16, 2010 9:37:59 GMT -4
ultima1,
Everyone I've seen posting to this thread is a forum regular who firmly believes the moon landings were real. They are just joking around by posting the nonsense responses the hoax believers would give to the points you are making. Nobody seriously believes what they are saying, they are just having fun because they're bored - we don't get many real hoax believers around here anymore. Sorry if you misunderstood; I doubt anyone intentionally mislead you. We tend to joke around often, but being new here, you apparently didn't catch on to our tongue-in-cheek humor.
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Post by ultima1 on Jun 16, 2010 9:43:29 GMT -4
ultima1, Everyone I've seen posting to this thread is a forum regular who firmly believes the moon landings were real. They are just joking around by posting the nonsense responses the hoax believers would give to the points you are making. Nobody seriously believes what they are saying, they are just having fun because they're bored - we don't get many real hoax believers around here anymore. Sorry if you misunderstood; I doubt anyone intentionally mislead you. We tend to joke around often, but being new here, you apparently didn't catch on to our tongue-in-cheek humor. Well i am on another forum that people attack me about the reflectors.
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Post by echnaton on Jun 16, 2010 9:43:56 GMT -4
There is no call for this kind of personal attack. ultima1 is new here and hasn't quite figured us out yet. He seems not to be a native English speaker, further presenting a problem.
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Post by kallewirsch on Jun 16, 2010 10:28:07 GMT -4
Well i am on another forum that people attack me about the reflectors. Just ask them what evidence they do have, that the reflectors actually were brought up with unmanned missons. Has anybody seen the rockets in question blast up? Has anybody followed a rocket to the moon, for which there is no official NASA record? For all other unmanned missions to the moon, we pretty well know where they were going to and their landing places are not nearly where the reflectors are located. Is there any other evidence, that unmanned missions brought the reflectors in place? I mean other then: It could have been done. Yes it could have been done. One the other side, I could have used a knife to kill my children. But just because I could have done this and I have a knife, this is really no evidence that I actually did, what I could have done.
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Post by ultima1 on Jun 16, 2010 10:54:18 GMT -4
Just ask them what evidence they do have, that the reflectors actually were brought up with unmanned missons. Well because of the Russians using an unmanned vehicle, they want to say we did too.
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Post by JayUtah on Jun 16, 2010 11:00:48 GMT -4
Well because of the Russians using an unmanned vehicle, they want to say we did too. But there's evidence that's what the Russians really did. There's no evidence that the Americans did that. The Russian mission proves only that doing it that way is somewhat possible, not that it's actually the way the Americans did it. We can provide just as much evidence that the Americans deployed their reflector using astronauts as the Soviets can that they used an unmanned spacecraft. Saying the American claim is suspicious, but the Russian claim isn't, is just being unreasonably biased against manned missions. See, the hoax believers think that all they have to do is come up with some abstract possibility, and that somehow disproves actual evidence. Not true. It's like having a witness on the stand giving testimony, and the opposing lawyer says, "But the witness could be lying; other witnesses have lied." It's not enough to suggest that evidence might be fabricated, you have to show that it was fabricated. The hoax believers think we have to show that it was utterly impossible to fake the Moon landings. In fact, we just have to show that they didn't -- not that it was impossible.
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Post by echnaton on Jun 16, 2010 11:02:20 GMT -4
Just ask them what evidence they do have, that the reflectors actually were brought up with unmanned missons. Well because of the Russians using an unmanned vehicle, they want to say we did too. Kallewirsh gives you the rebuttal but you don't seem to want to hear it. There is no way to shut HBs up, only to show their errors and provide a factual account of events for even minded readers. We do share your frustration but I must ask what are you looking for from this forum?
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Post by Jason Thompson on Jun 16, 2010 11:09:57 GMT -4
Well because of the Russians using an unmanned vehicle, they want to say we did too. But they have no evidence of that. With the Russians we can see evidence of the reflector and the vehicle it was put on, and the launch times were given, and so on. There is, if anything, more evidence surrounding the ones used on Apollo than the Russian ones, and all that evidence points to manned missions placing them. You could reverse the argument: there is evidence that the US placed the reflectors with manned missions, so the Russians could have too.
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Post by ultima1 on Jun 16, 2010 11:36:49 GMT -4
But they have no evidence of that. With the Russians we can see evidence of the reflector and the vehicle it was put on, and the launch times were given, and so on. Yes but they wil never admit to manned landing, they will stick to unmanned missions.
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Post by Jason Thompson on Jun 16, 2010 11:42:53 GMT -4
I have to wonder what it is you want out of this discussion, ultima1. We know that is the case. What is there to discuss? If you believe Apollo was real, and we believe Apollo was real, and you think that anyone who doesn't think that is impossible to convince, what are we debating here?
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jun 16, 2010 11:44:49 GMT -4
Yes but they wil never admit to manned landing, they will stick to unmanned missions. Of course, the typical hoax believer is irrational. All you can do is debunk the claim and hope that any reasonable person reading the thread will understand that the HBs are ignoramuses and that your explanation is the correct one.
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Post by ultima1 on Jun 16, 2010 11:48:11 GMT -4
I have to wonder what it is you want out of this discussion, ultima1. We know that is the case. What is there to discuss? If you believe Apollo was real, and we believe Apollo was real, and you think that anyone who doesn't think that is impossible to convince, what are we debating here? Well i did not know that everyone in here knew the moon landing was real, there is usually several people who do not.
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Post by echnaton on Jun 16, 2010 11:50:51 GMT -4
I have to wonder what it is you want out of this discussion, ultima1. We know that is the case. What is there to discuss? If you believe Apollo was real, and we believe Apollo was real, and you think that anyone who doesn't think that is impossible to convince, what are we debating here? Well i did not know that everyone in here knew the moon landing was real, there is usually several people who do not. It is usually better to look before you leap.
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Post by laurel on Jun 16, 2010 12:36:59 GMT -4
Well i did not know that everyone in here knew the moon landing was real, there is usually several people who do not. I know the Apollo landings were real, but I still don't think one can prove this by looking at Chang'e-1 images. You say that photographic experts can see the LMs and Rovers in these images, I would like to know what evidence there is for that claim.
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