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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 8, 2011 15:54:53 GMT -4
Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (wife of astronaut Mark Kelly) has been shot at an event in Tucson, Arizona. There are conflicting reports as to whether or not she is alive at this time. A dozen other people were also shot, and there have been fatalities. The gunman has been taken into custody.
It's too early to say what the motive of the gunman was, but I'm willing to bet it was political. Hopefully people like Sarah "Lock and Load" Palin and Glenn Beck will see this as a wake up call and realize that their kind of rhetoric is dangerous.
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Post by laurel on Jan 8, 2011 19:17:13 GMT -4
The latest report is that Giffords is alive but still critical after surgery. But six other people are dead and twelve are injured. Terrible. CTV says the gunman posted some rants about government mind control on YouTube. I saw one of them and it ended by saying the government is "implying [sic] mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." I think there are some mental health issues going on there.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 8, 2011 19:36:04 GMT -4
I think you're probably right about mental health issues being at the root of this. In the YouTube video I saw the gunman's message was barely comprehensible. It had something to do with currency.
In this case it's not fair to point fingers at anyone other than the gunman, but I stand by my comment about the rhetoric coming from people like Sarah Palin. I'm just concerned that politics in the United States has become very hostile, and it's not a good path to be on. I think it's only a matter if time before someone does act violently based on something a politician (or political commentator) has said.
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Post by gillianren on Jan 9, 2011 1:40:42 GMT -4
Apparently, one of the things the guy was ranting about was the "new currency." So the "Amero" nonsense is involved in the guy's delusions.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 9, 2011 7:29:01 GMT -4
Apparently, one of the things the guy was ranting about was the "new currency." So the "Amero" nonsense is involved in the guy's delusions. It's weirder than that, he seems to believe that anyone could just make a new currency. About all that can be said about him right now is that he is one mixed up fruitcake.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 9, 2011 12:29:57 GMT -4
I don't know if it's true, but I've heard he is a follower of David Icke.
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Post by BertL on Jan 9, 2011 12:57:01 GMT -4
I've seen people link him to an account on the AboveTopSecret forums, not sure if he was on the David Icke forums.
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Post by gillianren on Jan 9, 2011 14:42:48 GMT -4
I'll be very interested to see how the psychology of this one works out. Competent or not to stand trial; legally insane or not. We had, here in the United States, a presidential assassin who was too nuts to be executed but was anyway because he killed Garfield. On the other hand, the guy who shot Reagan was declared legally insane--but the outcry from it made several states abolish the insanity defense altogether. I think the fact that this one is political will shape how people are willing to accept the psychological aspects of it.
ETA--I think this is one of those changes wrought by the internet that we keep hearing about, too. No, I don't think any of us talked to the guy online, but I'm sure some of us will turn out to know people who did. Our "six degrees" circles just keep getting larger.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 9, 2011 22:44:53 GMT -4
Glen Beck may often go overboard in his conspiracy theories, and he has mentioned the "amero" from time to time, but he has consistently told his audience that violence is exactly what his enemies want in order to discredit him.
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Post by lionking on Jan 10, 2011 7:56:50 GMT -4
mmm. it is sad that assassinations move from one country to the other. What was her rheoric that was ofensive?
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Post by randombloke on Jan 10, 2011 8:20:32 GMT -4
As far as anyone can tell the most offensive thing she ever did to this guy was "be a State Official while in public" - crazy folk don't need reason or offence to do stuff; that's why we call 'em crazy.
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Post by PeterB on Jan 10, 2011 10:50:15 GMT -4
I'm just appalled that it's possible for a person with apparently quite clear mental problems to obtain a firearm.
I know the US Constitution has its amendment providing people with the right to bear arms, but I understood this was supposed to be in the context of a well regulated militia protecting the state. How does this man's possession of a firearm in any way represent a well regulated militia protecting the state?
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Post by Joe Durnavich on Jan 10, 2011 12:05:11 GMT -4
Apparently, one of the things the guy was ranting about was the "new currency." So the "Amero" nonsense is involved in the guy's delusions. Loughner was also said to be obsessed with grammar...
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 10, 2011 12:08:15 GMT -4
I'm just appalled that it's possible for a person with apparently quite clear mental problems to obtain a firearm. I know the US Constitution has its amendment providing people with the right to bear arms, but I understood this was supposed to be in the context of a well regulated militia protecting the state. How does this man's possession of a firearm in any way represent a well regulated militia protecting the state? All that would assume that Mr. Loughner obtained the firearm he used legally. Do you know if he did?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 10, 2011 12:20:56 GMT -4
It's too early to say what the motive of the gunman was, but I'm willing to bet it was political. Hopefully people like Sarah "Lock and Load" Palin and Glenn Beck will see this as a wake up call and realize that their kind of rhetoric is dangerous. Apparently, judging from his internet ranting, the man is an atheist, cites the Communist Manifesto and Mien Kampf as favorite books, is anti-flag, believed 9/11 was a government conspiracy, and hates George Bush. He doesn't sound much like a Tea Partier or Palin cheerleader to me. Quoted for truth. If there is an atmosphere of heated rhetoric in America at this time it is due to both parties efforts, not one side or the other. Maybe this tragedy will inspire some civility, but what seems much more likely to me is that both sides will blame their opponents for having created the climate in which such events could occur, never mind that the man obviously wasn't playing with a full deck - just as LunarOrbit did in his opening post.
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