Bob B.
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 10, 2011 23:18:50 GMT -4
Bob B. They did not have an LM that landed. See #133 above Why? What piece of needed technology did they not have? No you haven't. You penned a piece of science fiction. See comment above. Irrelevant. I beg to differ. We know quite conclusively that it did. Why? What piece of needed technology did they not have? |
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Post by gillianren on Jul 10, 2011 23:20:29 GMT -4
I have just demonstrated beyond any reasonable any conceivable doubt that the Eagle did not land. Wrong, and quoting Shakespeare doesn't have anything to do with anything. I have a reasonable doubt that it is possible to collect the Moon rocks any other way but the way that was described by the official Apollo record. I have not seen evidence to indicate that they are anything other than what they are, and I have not seen evidence to indicate that it was possible to collect them any way other than the way described in the Apollo record. That you "don't know how it was faked but know it was faked" doesn't mean that my doubt isn't reasonable. |
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 10, 2011 23:22:35 GMT -4
Specifically, the Eagle did not land. Could it have landed? I do not know NASA did not have a lander that could land period. Interesting. Within seven minutes you go from not knowing to being quite certain of yourself. |
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Post by scooter on Jul 10, 2011 23:24:34 GMT -4
Well, you got ONE thing right.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 10, 2011 23:47:45 GMT -4
The account is self contradictory and therefore cannot be true. The account is not self contradictory, it makes perfect sense. Approximate coordinates were know. More accurate coordinates were not ascertained until the crew returned to Earth. Approximate coordinates were know and they were trying to ascertain a better fix on the exact location. The P68 program got them close, but by finding the position relative to terrain features would be better. |
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 11, 2011 0:30:55 GMT -4
They ran the P68 program to determine their position ... Couldn't they pick up the space phone and say , "Hey Charlie Duke, we are at 00 41 15 N and 23 26 00 E". Maybe they did. Have you confirmed whether or not the results of the P68 program were transmitted to Earth via the telemetry? Not everything had to be communicated verbally, you know. |
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Post by fattydash on Jul 11, 2011 1:08:02 GMT -4
For Bob
1)They did not have a LM that could land on the moon.
2)Aldrin SAID he ran a P68 program. This program generates the coordinates of a lander's position were a lander to be on the moon. No lunar coordinates were generated and so the Eagle did not land.
Direct question back to you Bob. Could the Eagle have landed on the moon and not run a P68 program which would generate the lander's position?
Also, I emphasized the introduction to my piece was one possible scenario. There are others and I clearly stated my example represented simply a way to begin in terms of getting at Apollo's truth.
The subsequent sections of the piece, have absolutely nothing to do with hypotheticals. Each claim is provided along with strong support, mostly by way of NASA's own documents. As regards other references sited, they include the journal Science with reference to one of the first LRRR papers, Andrew Chaikin's work, an authored highly regarded by the astronauts themselves(He by the way has interviewed 23 of the 24 Apollo astronauts) and Donald Beattie's work. Beattie as most know was a highly respected member of the team of scientists that developed the Apollo experiments. His character and abilities are hardly to be challenged.
As regards your point about the sci-fi, by all means, let's move on and please engage me in debate as regards my fact based claims which follow the hypothetical. My demonstration of the Eagle's never having landed on the moon has absolutely nothing to do with the hypothetical I employed as an introduction. I presented that to the eavesdroppers to give them a sense as to one possible explanation for what went on.
3) I welcome your alternative interpretation of the following. NASA claimed in the wake of the landing that the Tranquility LRRR was not "found" until 08/01/1969. NASA claimed the reason for this was that they had not identified the coordinates of the reputed Eagle's landing site until this time because the site's location had to be determined by way of photo and flight data analysis. However, all members of the Lick team were aware that NASA had provided them with the Tranquility LRRR location on the evening of 07/20/1969. How is that not a lie. Direct question.
4) I agree the Eagle's never flying here on earth is not relevant to its lunar capabilities. I only brought it up to stress we actually know nothing about it. It did not land on the moon and additionally, never flew here.
5) You may beg to differ all you like. Please see the MIT manual and I refer you to Aldrin's own testimony as referenced in my piece. A P68 generates landing coordinates. The astronauts claimed to have run a P68 program after they landed. Direct question; if they did land and did run a P68 program from the Eagle on the surface of the moon, why were no landing coordinates generated?
6) The lander itself, the entire lander Bob, the whole thing, from top to bottom. That is the piece of equipment they did not have.
Request on my part, for the balance of our interaction, please do not refer to my hypothetical any longer unless you wish to make a point other than its being a hypothetical. Let's debate the facts.
Thank you for your response.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 11, 2011 1:26:11 GMT -4
For Bob at #140
Yes we know there was most definitely no telemetric transmission of the coordinates. The US Geological Survey people were frantically looking for the landing site based on descriptions of the terrain provided by Aldrin and Armstrong, hardly a situation compatible with Mission Control already having the coordinates.
Please do not ask this question again. I provided ample evidence in the body of my piece from both NASA's own documents and independent sources as to why this could not have been the case. And importantly, may I remind you Bob, NASA itself claims they did not know where the Eagle was, did not have the coordinates.
This question has absolutely no merit in its asking. A contrary position is NASA's own.
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Post by tedward on Jul 11, 2011 2:27:01 GMT -4
Apollo 11 takes off on 07/16/1969. During the days of the alleged exploration, Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins remain in low earth orbit, on the earth, or perhaps both. One thing we can be absolutely certain of, they do not travel across the void of cislunar space to the moon. That technology did not exist then as it obviously does not exist now. Apollo 11 was staged, scripted. Apollo 11 was grand theater. dooby dooby dooo. Frank Sinatra. (apt you quoted a writer who embellished and wrote fiction) How did this work then? |
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Post by gillianren on Jul 11, 2011 2:49:02 GMT -4
1)They did not have a LM that could land on the moon. Why not? What was wrong with it? |
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Post by fattydash on Jul 11, 2011 2:52:02 GMT -4
I do not understand the question. My statement as regards Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins being possibly in low earth orbit is part of the hypothetical I presented, one of many possible scenarios. Are you asking me something about my hypothetical?
The latter part of my piece you quoted, the part regarding our certainty of Apollo's fraudulence, that part of my piece is not hypothetical and is supported generously by NASA's own documents. IF you are asking me to repeat in brief why we can be sure Apollo 11 was a staged event, we can be sure of this because no landing coordinates were ever generated, the Eagle was a lost bird. And if she did not land, Apollo cannot be real.
I hope this was helpful. If not , please rephrase your question. Be as specific as you can and I will be sure to do likewise.
Thank you for your response.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 11, 2011 3:01:34 GMT -4
For #144
I have trouble understanding your question gren. My piece provides more than an adequate case for the Eagle's not having been on the moon.
If you are asking me about a phantom machine, I cannot say what the Apollo 11 script writers had in mind for any imagined problems.
I only know there was no landing as Aldrin claimed in the transcript that a P68 had been run. As no landing coordinates were generated, we can with certainty conclude there was no landing. We can rightfully confer Aldrin SAID he did something that was never done.
Please dio not ask this question again. I will not answer it if it is so asked. The query has been responded to previously and NASA's own records, well referenced in my piece, confirm the feigned Eagle expedition was an expedition without a landing.
I repeat, do not ask this question again. It has been answered and answered well. I refer you and other readers to the NASA documents as referenced above and the MIT navigational manual.
Thank you for your response.
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Post by tedward on Jul 11, 2011 3:03:44 GMT -4
Fattydash, what would have happened if they touched down and as per rules (I think they had one for getting the hell out toot sweet) and had to blast off? No chance to check location to the nth degree for your theory. Renders your version of war and peace down to I came, I saw, I went. Sure you can Latinate that for me.
What about if Neil got out and something went wrong and Buzz had to take off. Still no chance to do an nth degrees locate. I have not perused the rules to confirm all this but the scenario exists.
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Post by carpediem on Jul 11, 2011 3:05:43 GMT -4
Hey fattydash your writing is a lot like Dave McGowan's.
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Post by tedward on Jul 11, 2011 3:06:53 GMT -4
I do not understand the question. My statement as regards Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins being possibly in low earth orbit is part of the hypothetical I presented, one of many possible scenarios. Are you asking me something about my hypothetical? The latter part of my piece you quoted, the part regarding our certainty of Apollo's fraudulence, that part of my piece is not hypothetical and is supported generously by NASA's own documents. IF you are asking me to repeat in brief why we can be sure Apollo 11 was a staged event, we can be sure of this because no landing coordinates were ever generated, the Eagle was a lost bird. And if she did not land, Apollo cannot be real. I hope this was helpful. If not , please rephrase your question. Be as specific as you can and I will be sure to do likewise. Thank you for your response. You present the scenario, I ask you how it works. Simple. How do they effect a low earth orbit or on earth hoax? Or to phrase it another way, you suggest they stayed near or on earth, how did they do that? Maybe you suggest they did not go past the earth, how did they do that? If you present hypothetical scenario, why attach it to something you claim as fact? |
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