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Post by drewid on Aug 29, 2011 13:56:07 GMT -4
I've just noticed that pfat also added on the offsets mentioned in mission report during his round-up post on jref.
The offsets that are supposed to be added if using one particular map dated 1967.
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Post by nomuse on Aug 29, 2011 14:53:53 GMT -4
Drewid -- that would be a correction to a topo map? When was that offset begun? Does it have anything to do with the revision of the geoid I seem to recall happened somewhere around the Clementine era?
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Post by drewid on Aug 29, 2011 15:10:49 GMT -4
It's mentioned in the footnotes following TABLE 5-1V.- LUNAR LANDING COORDINATES (page 5-15 of the A11 Mission Report). a) Following the Apollo 10 mission, a difference was noted (from the landmark tracking results) between the trajectory coordinate system and the coordinate system on the reference map. In order to reference trajectory values to the 1:100 000 scale Lunar Map ORB-II-6 (100), dated December 1967, correction factors of plus 2'25" in latitude and minus 4'17" in longitude must be applied to the trajectory values. |
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Post by nomuse on Aug 29, 2011 15:30:43 GMT -4
Am I correct in assuming the trajectory coordinate system was based on an idealized gravometric map, one that was "pinned" to the topological surface in only a few places (say, poles and one line of longitude)? Whereas the topo map is pinned to a grid over a spheroid generated around a closer approximation of the Moon's physical divergence from a sphere?
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Post by drewid on Aug 30, 2011 4:33:21 GMT -4
Does the ORB designation of the map mean that it's an orbital map as opposed to a ground map?
Could be, does anyone know? I've not been able to find the particular map mentioned.
I was reading that as that there was a widely used, but now updated map, so apply the offset if using the older map, but not on the newer?
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Post by Obviousman on Aug 31, 2011 2:32:37 GMT -4
What type of projection was it? I'm presuming a Mercator? The projection determines what it could be used for in terms of accuracy of various aspects such as direction, distance, area, etc.
I think the ORB is simply an internal designation.
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Post by chrlz on Sept 10, 2011 21:43:59 GMT -4
Just an FYI for anyone following fattydash as he sockpuppets around the web.. he has returned (after his trek to JREF) as HighGain at BAUT, now offering his well-informed opinions on the new LRO images. HighGain, who until now has carefully avoided any strong commitment on Apollo denial, is, inexplicably, "beginning to have some doubts now"...  |
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Post by Kiwi on Sept 10, 2011 23:31:16 GMT -4
HighGain, who until now has carefully avoided any strong commitment on Apollo denial, is, inexplicably, "beginning to have some doubts now"... Surprise, surprise! I wonder if HighGain will say he thinks Patrick1000 at JREF is a fool. I guess he could indeed be right because, as Patrick1000, his reasoning goes something like: "There was never a manned lunar module on the moon, nor a command module orbiting it, and the manned lunar module that was on the moon and the command module that was orbiting it proved it." forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7529385&postcount=1830That's why I have repeatedly asked him (without getting a reply) to say exactly what he believes FIDO David Reed did before Eagle launched from the moon, because his prize witness, Reed, only accomplished what he did via a LM on the moon with someone inside to turn on the rendezvous radar, and a CSM orbiting overhead. That little fact seems to have escaped PattyKayk. |
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Post by twik on Sept 11, 2011 10:48:07 GMT -4
HighGain's position appears to be "We can't believe in Apollo until we have clear, close-up pictures". The fact that we have thousands of them, from the actual landing, is apparently not enough proof. So, he wants NASA to send a small landing craft to take *more*, which he claims he will then believe implicitly.
It's wonderful entertainment trying to follow his mental processes.
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Post by twik on Sept 11, 2011 13:22:58 GMT -4
Ah, me, wasted some more time trying to follow Patrick/Fattydash's logic on JREF.
I think it boils down to. he wants to find the US government lied about something. What, doesn't really matter - it's that he, P1K/FD, has seen through their devious deception. In his later posts, he seems more concerned with proving that there were military implications for the LRRR, so they weren't put there "in peace".
I'm tempted to join JREF just to point out something the other posters have missed in P1K/FD's profusion of odd ideas - that the US government was secretly placing satellites on the lunar surface. Not in space - on the surface of the moon. No one's yet pointed out that such a location would make them actually not satellites (or, at best, small parts of one large satellite).
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Post by coelacanth on Sept 12, 2011 22:57:20 GMT -4
I think it boils down to. he wants to find the US government lied about something. He should be happy then, there are plenty of legitimate options. No need to make something up. |
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Post by twik on Sept 12, 2011 23:09:16 GMT -4
I think it boils down to. he wants to find the US government lied about something. He should be happy then, there are plenty of legitimate options. No need to make something up. Yes, but those lies have been exposed by someone else. He wants to be the one who uncovers the Big Lie itself. |
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Post by coelacanth on Sept 13, 2011 1:50:07 GMT -4
He should be happy then, there are plenty of legitimate options. No need to make something up. Yes, but those lies have been exposed by someone else. He wants to be the one who uncovers the Big Lie itself. Ah, I see, that is a lot tougher. If he isn't in possession of inside information, investigative journalism skills, or something along those lines, then making something up may be the only viable strategy. Or maybe luck is what is needed. Seems to me, exposure of a lot of dirty secrets has been done not by someone who set out to do it, but who just happened by some coincidence to be in a position to do it. You can be ready if the occasion arises, but you may not be able to cause the occasion ever to arise! |
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Post by tedward on Sept 13, 2011 4:14:21 GMT -4
A particular bent is avoiding certain questions or questioners and looking for someone in particular with which to engage. I think he also looking for a slip up, a genuine mistake in reply, to get some confirmation for his belief (for that is what it is). I suspect a web site or book will be the beneficiary of such an error.
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Post by carpediem on Sept 19, 2011 3:09:42 GMT -4
Just an FYI for anyone following fattydash as he sockpuppets around the web.. he has returned (after his trek to JREF) as HighGain at BAUT, now offering his well-informed opinions on the new LRO images. HighGain, who until now has carefully avoided any strong commitment on Apollo denial, is, inexplicably, "beginning to have some doubts now"... HighGain has finally been banned for sockpuppetry. I predict he will try to re-register here soon. |
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