The "Coke bottle"

[Kiwi]

Sigh, it has come up again, this time at The Black Vault -- and one poster knows far more about the moon landings than Clavius.
www.bvalphaserver.com/postx36401-0-0.html

Turbonium -- I see you posting there. I don't have time to read all the pages and reply, so please feel free to refer the readers to my post here
msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/43/t/000892.html
where I relate how I got to the bottom of the "Coke bottle" mystery.

One poster says that a particular video looks nothing like what was described in "Dark Moon." Well, I read the Una Ronald story first and later noticed the flare concerned, and it does indeed match Una's description if we allow for the memories of a once-only viewing over 30 years ago.

[turbonium]

I think it's a dead issue, Kiwi. No replies to jaydees for awhile, so it might have been dropped. But, I'll post a link to your info if it comes up again. I don't think many people know the Una Ronald story is no more than a confusion about an object easily mistaken for a bottle, if it even is an actual report.

[JayUtah]

The poster likely says the video looks nothing like Una Ronald's description because that's what Aulis said.

The video clip in question was sent to me as "Coke bottle" footage long before I read Una's claim. When I did, I was quite surprised to see that indeed it described what I had seen in the footage, and where I had seen it. Clearly I'm not the only one to conclude -- albeit subjectively -- that this is what Una saw.

The problem, of course, with the Una Ronald story is that we have to get it through the selective and distorting filter of Mary Bennett and David Percy, who are desperately trying to warp it to be something it is not, and something that supports their point of view. I believe Una Ronald exists, but I have a hard time with these authors acting as a go-between. I say that if she is to be held up as any kind of "whistle-blower", let her stand up herself and answer the questions about her claims. It's time for Bennett and Percy to stand aside and let their "witnesses" speak for themselves.

[jaydeehess]

I have been trying to get that poster to answer a question for quite some time but she refuses to come back to the thread now.

I started that thread because she had started a Apollo hoax thread but kept changing the subject evrytime I debunked her claims making liberal use of Jay Utah, and Bob B.'s sites. Then after a while it would repeat. I chose to force each topic to a separate thread.

There is also a separate thread for the Van Allen Belts that she has not responded to in months.

Now once again this poster is posting but in threads simply titled "Moon Landings, The Hoax" The latest topic is falling moon dust as the rover scoots about.

Concerning Una's coke bottle though I note I said I would inform Jay about his gov't power. Can you get me a green card Jay? ;D

You see according to the proponents of Una's Coke bottle story there is absolutely no evidence that there ever was a Coke bottle on the Moon or in any broadcast pruportedly from the Moon and therefore it is a done deal that there indeed was a Coke bottle that rolled accross the scene.

The government is suggesting that what is seen in this video is what was seen and wrongly interpreted to be a "Coke bottle."

The government?? Since when is Jay Utah of Clavius the government. I will have to let him know, there may be changes he would like to make when he learns of his political power.

[colinr]

Hi all - First Post

jaydeehess - how did you keep your cool, I waded through all 12 pages of the Black Vault Coke bottle thread , and by the end I was ready to award you some kind of medal for your patience , and something rather more violent for Ms silverlake -

[sts60]

colinr, welcome to the board!

You can see how one must develop a Zen-like level of patience in dealing with most "hoax" proponents. A lot of them are utterly immune to logic or evidence. A lot of them believe something and that's it.

[Bob B.]

Hi colinr, welcome.

[jaydeehess]

sts60 said:

colinr, welcome to the board!

You can see how one must develop a Zen-like level of patience in dealing with most "hoax" proponents. A lot of them are utterly immune to logic or evidence. A lot of them believe something and that's it.

That certainly applies to the poster(springlake) in question. She tows the "Dark Moon" party line even when it is demonstrated to her that something in that book is absolutly and demonstrably false. If Bennet and Percy had stated that the Earth was flat she would have believed it.

[margamatix]

Hello Colin, welcome along.

I'm quite new myself, but everyone here has been so nice to me, and have made me feel very much at home, even though I disagree with the general Zeitgeist.

Hope you enjoy it.

[skinbath]

Margamatix; Can we apply your new signature to your arguments and beliefs regarding Moon landings and Apollo?
Yours in jest ,skinbath.

[colinr]

Hi there guys, and thanks for the welcome - perhaps a small bit of background might be in order

I'm old enough to rememebr the apollo missions - infact flights 13-17 took place while was in econdary,(high) school here in the UK , I have no doubt that the Apollo missions , and indeed the mercury , and gemini missions occured as advertised .

I've been intrested int he alleged Hoax for some time , I guess since the Fox nonsense aired , I'm also registered over on BABB as Scotsman

With a small library of book at home covering the NASA missions, (includin a first edition "Carrying the fire"!) , I really thought I knew something about Apollo, but with 4 years or so on Bad Astronomy , and now here , I realise I've only scratched the surface .

My working life has been spent in and around the North Sea Oil industry , and I've been a very small cog in some of the largest civil engineering projects the UK has ever seen, and so I have a pretty good idea how major engineering projects are carried out , and the idea that dedicated engineers could somehow be fooled into participating in a hoax of any description is laughable

margamatix - could I ask you to have a look at just one book , "Moon Lander - how we Devloped the Apollo Lunar module" by Thomas J Kelly- it tells of the efforts Kelly and the teams at grumman made to devlope the Lander you appear to have so much scorn for, people litterateraly worked themselves to death to build a unique machine that worked better than anyone could have believed ...

Sorry to ramble on .... next post will be shorter!

[PhantomWolf]

colinr said:

Sorry to ramble on .... next post will be shorter!

This ws long? You obviously don't read Jay's posts much.

[Kiwi]

colinr said:

"Moon Lander - how we Devloped the Apollo Lunar module" by Thomas J Kelly- it tells of the efforts Kelly and the teams at grumman made to devlope the Lander you appear to have so much scorn for, people litterateraly worked themselves to death to build a unique machine that worked better than anyone could have believed ...

This is getting way off the "Coke bottle" (new thread for new topic, please...) but at 0:16:50 in the NASA movie, "Apollo 13: Houston, We’ve Got a Problem," Flight Director Gene Kranz can be seen saying, "I think as we have found before, every time we've put the LM to a test it's always done much more than it was guaranteed to do."

[PeterB]

I was looking at the Coke bottle footage last weekend. I noticed that the artefact appeared on the screen, then moved across it in jerks (which obviously corresponded to Aldrin's movements). This alone would suggest it couldn't have been accidentally kicked across a sound-stage, as even Coke bottles don't materialise out of nothing. So if it hadn't been an artefact of the camera, the only possible alternative would have been something introduced into the video. This, incidentally, would appear to invalidate Una Ronald's conclusion.