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Post by james on Oct 15, 2005 15:09:15 GMT -4
Firstly, let me just say that I do believe in the moon landings. I just came here to get some help on the subject.
Lately I've started to see some claims that the Apollo photos weren't made/published until the 80'/90's or something like that. It's a pretty outrageous claim I know. What I need help with is finding books on the Moon landings that were published in the 60's and 70's and other such things. I don't really know how to find things like that. I'm also sure that some of you here were alive at the time of the lunar landings and must have seen photos published soon after the landings as well.
If any one can help or at least point me in the right direction, that would be great, thank you.
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Post by nomuse on Oct 15, 2005 15:18:01 GMT -4
I just pulled out my college introductory astronomy text. Hartmann's "Astronomy; the Cosmic Journey" has a 1978 pub date and includes a number of Apollo photographs credited to NASA (as well as some Viking pics).
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Post by nomuse on Oct 15, 2005 15:22:58 GMT -4
"This Island Earth", NASA pub SP-250, dated 1970, contains several Apollo photographs; including a pic of Apollo 12 visiting Surveyor 3.
I realize in the context of your problem you would prefer to have reference for a large coffee-table type book dedicated to Apollo (the more photos, the harder they are to fake?) but this is all I have, sorry.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Oct 15, 2005 16:22:04 GMT -4
The oldest book I have published after the moon landings is my college astronomy book,
University Astronomy, Jay M Pasachoff & Marc L. Kutner, W. B. Saunders Company, 1978, ISBN 0-7216-7099-7.
In it I've found seven Apollo pictures taken on the lunar surface and another four taken from lunar orbit. You might try checking with a library to see if they have an archive of old magazines. I'm sure a magazine like Life probably published many photos shortly after the landings.
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Post by Obviousman on Oct 15, 2005 17:51:00 GMT -4
I think what someone may be trying to 'twist' is that many images were not WIDELY available.
Initially, you'd have to go through the NASA PAO or similar to get a list of images, arrange for a proof sheet to see which ones you wanted, etc, etc. This would have been done only for books or specific projects. I don't know, but doubt if NASA put out a large catalogue with thumbnails, containing every image taken. For instance, what about the ones with light leakage - would they be included?
These days we can access the servers via the net, so looking at the images is very easy.
No, the images were available - but you would have had to be a researcher, have the available time, and be able to go to where the images were stored.
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Post by james on Oct 15, 2005 19:55:37 GMT -4
I think what someone may be trying to 'twist' is that many images were not WIDELY available. That's what I figure as well. It's a pretty silly argument. But thanks for your help everyone.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 15, 2005 20:55:32 GMT -4
Of course all the images weren't readily available until the advent of the Internet when NASA and others scanned and put them up on sites such as the Apollo Lunar Surface Journals, Apollo Image Atlas and Apollo Achives. The problem is that 99% of HB's don't seem to think that there is any information other than the Internet and the thought that perhaps you would have had to go to a library or contact the holders of the information rather then click a mouse is sort of adhorrent. This atitude is often seen when a citing is referanced to a specific book or journal and the response is "Do you have a link for that?"
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 15, 2005 21:08:46 GMT -4
As to the Earilest photos. I have three things here that would date to 1969, 1970. One is a number of pages taken from a Magazine article about the landings shortly after Apollo 11. One is a booklet called "To The Moon And Beyond" from the US Information service that was published between Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 and the final and oldest of them is a booklet prepared by North American Rockwell Corp's Space division and distrubuted by the US Information Agency called "Man On The Moon" which while it has no Apollo 11 images because it is prior to Apollo 11, and dealing with that landing, it does have photos from Apollos 7, 8, 9, and 10.
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Post by Kiwi on Oct 16, 2005 5:11:27 GMT -4
James,
I followed the space programme ever since I saw Sputnik 1 overhead in October 1957 and I listened to the powered descent and landing of Eagle on the radio as it happened, 8:17:40am Monday 21 July 1969 NZST.
The following early publications I own all have photos. There would have been many others. Time, Life and National Geographic were good sources. Look up newspapers at the times of the missions in your local library.
BOOKS "Journey to Tranquillity - The History of Man's Assault on the Moon", Hugo Young, Brian Silcock and Peter Dunn. Jonathan Cape Ltd, London (1969) -- Hardcover
"The Invasion of the Moon 1969 - The Story of Apollo 11", Peter Ryan. Penguin Books Ltd, Harmondsworth, Middlesex, England (1969) -- Paperback
"First on the Moon - A Voyage with Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins, Edwin E. Aldrin Jr", written with Gene Farmer and Dora Jane Hamblin, epilogue by Arthur C. Clark. Michael Joseph Ltd, London (1970) -- Hardcover
"Life in Space". Time-Life Books Inc., Alexandria, Virginia (1983) – Hardcover (Some photos in this book are of better quality and detail than can be found on the internet.)
MAGAZINE AND NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS "A Most Fantastic Voyage" [Apollo 8], Lt. Gen. Sam C. Phillips. National Geographic, Vol. 135, No. 5, May 1969, pages 593-631 "And Now to Touch the Moon's Forbidding Face", Kenneth F. Weaver. National Geographic, Vol. 135, No. 5, May 1969, pages 632-635 "Man Walks on Another World" [Apollo 11], Neil A. Armstrong, Edwin E. Aldrin Jr and Michael Collins. National Geographic, Vol. 136, No. 6, December 1969, pages 738-749 "Sounds of the Space Age, From Sputnik to Lunar Landing" [33-1/3 RPM Monaural Recording], narrated by Astronaut Frank Borman. National Geographic, Vol. 136, No. 6, December 1969, page 750 "The Flight of Apollo 11: 'One Giant Leap for Mankind'", Kenneth F. Weaver. National Geographic, Vol. 136, No. 6, December 1969, pages 752-787 "What the Moon Rocks Tell Us", Kenneth F. Weaver. National Geographic, Vol. 136, No. 6, December 1969, pages 788-791 "Next Steps in Space ", Dr Thomas O. Paine. National Geographic, Vol. 136, No. 6, December 1969, pages 792-797 "The Climb Up Cone Crater" [Apollo 14], Alice J. Hall. National Geographic, Vol. 140, No. 1, July 1971, pages 136-148 "History Written in Rock" [Apollo 15 -- Photos of Mount Hadley]. National Geographic, Vol. 141, No. 2, February 1972, pages 230-232 "To the Mountains of the Moon" [Apollo 15], Kenneth F. Weaver. National Geographic, Vol. 141, No. 2, February 1972, pages 233-265 "What is it Like to Walk on the Moon?" [Apollo 15], David R. Scott. National Geographic, Vol. 144, No. 3, September 1973, pages 326-329 "Apollo 16 Brings us Visions from Space". National Geographic, Vol. 142, No. 6, December 1972, pages 856-865 "Exploring Taurus-Littrow" [Apollo 17], Harrison H. Schmitt. National Geographic, Vol. 144, No. 3, September 1973, pages 290-307 "Have We Solved the Mysteries of the Moon?", Kenneth F. Weaver. National Geographic, Vol. 144, No. 3, September 1973, pages 308-325
In case you're wondering if sound was available, on 9 November 1969 I bought an LP that I still have that has many communications between Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins and Houston on it. 33-1/3 R.P.M. LONG PLAYING RECORD "Apollo 11: We Have Landed on the Moon", Capitol Records, His Masters Voice (N.Z.) Ltd (Bought 9 November 1969)
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Post by Kiwi on Oct 16, 2005 5:18:56 GMT -4
The following is from a clipping I have. Unfortunately I don't have the source, but it was probably a book published in the 1980s or early 1990s, before so many NASA photos became available on the internet: NASA Photographs (Source not known) Despite the persistent rumors of 'secret space pictures', all photographs taken by NASA in space are in the public domain. That is, any picture taken by an astronaut or an earth resource satellite is available to anyone who wants to pay for it. There are four tiers of photograph availability, but two are reserved for newsmen only. The structure is as follows: A. The most popular space photographs taken are lithographed for general free distribution to anyone who asks for the them. Several dozen new photographs are added to this list every year. Cost to NASA is a few cents per print. B. The NASA Public Information Offices at various centers and at headquarters prints glossy photographs of timely news stories for distribution to the news media. Hundreds of these photographs are released every year, but only certified newsmen can receive them for free. C. Many thousands of other photographs and drawings may be of interest to the news media and are therefore filed at public information offices, but stock copies are not kept. Each request must be filled by actual photo lab orders, which costs NASA about one dollar per photograph. D. Any citizen who wants copies of any photograph listed in 'B' or 'C' above can get it, but it is entirely reasonable for NASA to expect him to pay for it. News bureau photographs, along with all other flight photography - stills and movies - can be ordered from Bara Studios, PO Box 486, Bladensburg, MD 20710. The cost of any photograph ordered by stock number is several dollars apiece. Any cross-referencing or researching will also cost money. Some ground photographs of astronaut accidents, autopsies, and medical examinations are not releasable for publication. On several Gemini flights, special photographic experiments were undertaken for the DoD, but these involved special cameras and exclusively earth surface targets. In neither case would it be possible to withhold any hypothetical UFO photographs from the public. Astronaut photographs are indexed by a code which specifies year taken and frame number. S66-12387, for example, would be a NASA photo (not necessarily a space photo) taken in 1966. Beginning with Apollo, space photos were also indexed with a mission code, roll number and frame number (neither of which were repeated on later flights). For example, AS16-108-13005 was taken on the Apollo-16 flight, with the 108th roll of the Apollo project flight film. Movie film is indexed per magazine with similar numbers. Every photograph ever taken by American astronauts for NASA is on file with Bara Studios and can be obtained by anyone willing to pay for them. Writers who produce 'secret NASA UFO photographs' which they claim are being hidden from the American public are doing a gross disservice to one of the most open and cooperative public information offices of any federal agency.
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Post by gwiz on Oct 17, 2005 3:23:22 GMT -4
And if National Geographic isn't enough, the glossy illustrateds like Life and Paris Match all put out special editions full of Apollo 11 photos. Aviation Week typically included an 8-page colour section after each mission.
Edit: The first book about Apollo 11 was "We Reach the Moon" by John Noble Wilford, published a few weeks after the flight. IIRC, it had colour photos.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 17, 2005 8:02:24 GMT -4
Oh well it must have been a fake then. How else could they have had the book written and published with colour photos only a few weeks after the crew was back. Everyone knows it takes years to write a book, so it had to have been prewritten. Q.E.D.
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Post by gwiz on Oct 17, 2005 8:57:25 GMT -4
Oh well it must have been a fake then. How else could they have had the book written and published with colour photos only a few weeks after the crew was back. Everyone knows it takes years to write a book, so it had to have been prewritten. Q.E.D. I debunk you thus: check Amazon for how many books have already been published on England winning the 2005 Ashes series.
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Oct 17, 2005 10:19:45 GMT -4
And Matt Pinsent's A Lifetime in a Race was out so soon after Athens that he must write even faster than he rows....
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Post by drjohn on Oct 17, 2005 17:22:43 GMT -4
. Edit: The first book about Apollo 11 was "We Reach the Moon" by John Noble Wilford, published a few weeks after the flight. IIRC, it had colour photos. It does have color photos and it is pretty easy to find at used book stores.
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