|
Post by Ginnie on Nov 30, 2007 19:18:53 GMT -4
A nib with a bulbous tip might work.
I believe the nibs in the lower right of the illustration I posted are bulbous.
|
|
|
Post by nomuse on Nov 30, 2007 19:21:46 GMT -4
Know the feeling. But then, I'm still trying to untrained myself from digging in during the pencil stage. Hiding my HB pencil and forcing myself to draw only with the 2H is helping, though.
Ink with Pitt brush pens myself. They get away from you so fast, though!
Does anyone else remember those "hybrid" disposable technical pens? Same steel tube as a Rapidograph but a third the price -- which was good, because they weren't refillable.
|
|
|
Post by Cavorite on Nov 30, 2007 19:22:19 GMT -4
So it's usually an architectural issue that was a defensible decision at the time, and creates an economic situation where repair and maintenance is still usually the cheapest route. Cool, thanks for that, Jay. I guess they just have to hope that their one remaining link to the craft doesn't break.
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Nov 30, 2007 19:39:58 GMT -4
Adams is the first to admit he's no artist. Yet he is clearly one of the most successful comic artists of all time, and has an immediately recognizable, distinct style. He knows the secret of his success: he doesn't try to draw things he can't figure out how to draw. Look at what Mark Rothko built his career on. Most of the stuff I do for production is ephemeral. Long-term retention is not an issue. It wouldn't matter if I used goose crap and a pointed stick. So if the felt-tip works, it works. I do line sketches in pen, then scan and color in Photoshop. For personal use I use good inks and products. Not that I expect it to last the ages, but I want to be prepared. If you're careful you can find felt-tips with waterfast ink that survive a good watercolor scrubbing. I'm glad to see once-ephemeral art forms being given serious attention, but there has always been a certain edginess to it that might be destroyed if the overriding concern is being able to see it 200 years from now in a gallery surrounded by wine and classical music. Did I tell you about the 337 Project? It was a building whose owner turned it over to street artists who drew for the chance to work a wall or a room. They had three months to execute their art, after which the building was open for tours for one weekend and then (allegedly) torn down. The whole point was that the art would not persist. That was in July, and it's now nearly December and the building isn't torn down yet. You can't go in, but the ephemeris premise is in limbo. I shy away from colored leads because most of them are waxy colored-pencil substances. Not that I have anything against colored pencils. But the natural graphite leads are so much more satisfying and erasable. I use a cleanup bag, accept what it does to my inking, and then darken the digital lines later.
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Nov 30, 2007 19:45:09 GMT -4
I believe the nibs in the lower right of the illustration I posted are bulbous.
The larger ones are broad only in one dimension. Seen from above they present the characteristic profile, but seen from the side they're still flat as a pancake. The nibs I'm thinking of are bulbous as seen from the side too. It creates a spherical tip that's split according to the ink channel. The spherical tip denies most of the paper's opportunity to grab a sharp edge of some part of the nib. They're mostly for writing in modern script.
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Nov 30, 2007 19:54:52 GMT -4
But then, I'm still trying to untrained myself from digging in during the pencil stage.
Embrace it. Use a well-sharpened 8H and texture the paper with it, then come back with a colored pencil wash and watch the fun. You can't erase, but you'll have so much fun you won't want to. That's my secret for rendering the tile boundaries in tile floors. People always ask how I get that thin, sharp, white line. I just smile and ask for the money.
As for actual pencil drawing, I don't even use the B side of the product line. I draw light outlines in 6H and put a 4H wash over the entire drawing. Then I put in darks with 2H and use a kneaded eraser for highlights. Use the sides of the lead. One of my best drawings was done in HB only, on bristol board (almost no tooth), and smoothed with a stump and face tissue. You really don't need 8 grades of pencil and toothy paper.
Challenge convention. Do what works.
|
|
|
Post by Ginnie on Nov 30, 2007 21:06:00 GMT -4
You sure know what you're doing! When I'm using pencils I have them all in a container, then I just test them on my paper (could be different types of paper, or matte board or watercolour paper) outside my drawing area. I don't know a 8H from a HB. Sometimes I need soft leads, sometimes hard - I kind of pick them from sight, recognizing pencils I've used before. When I work (painting especially) I make a huge mess, grabbing quickly paints and brushes - holding one in my mouth, one in my hand, squirting paint and trying to put down my 'inspiration' , be it shape or colour before it dissapears. My wife doesn't appreciate the splashes of paint that somehow travelled five feet in the air and landed on the couch, bookshelves and lamp (and floor, chair, table and walls!). That usually happens when I used a toothbrush to paint with. I get paint on all my shirts and pants, that won't wash out. I get it in my hair, on my face, around the sinks when I'm rinsing them out and on the kitchen floor (I was painting on an old chair). Here's an idea of what I end up with: The windmill painting was my first ever 'sale' - $150. Wow! ;D I'm in a batting slump right now. Haven't painted for almost a year. I don't know what happened to the passion. Any suggestion on how to get over this is very welcome.
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Nov 30, 2007 22:48:23 GMT -4
Very striking art, ginnie. I love the skies!
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Nov 30, 2007 23:54:59 GMT -4
I'd have paid more for the windmill.
Go to galleries. Look at what other people are doing. That brings the muse back.
If you don't have some sort of art implement in your mouth at all times, you're doing it wrong.
Your frenetic attempt to capture the impression before it disappears is exactly what Impressionism was about. I forget whether it was Renoir or Monet who wrote about camping out in a field at twilight evening after evening trying to capture one particular light effect during the very few minutes it presented itself, and the agony of nature outracing him.
|
|
|
Post by Ginnie on Dec 1, 2007 0:28:50 GMT -4
I forget whether it was Renoir or Monet who wrote about camping out in a field at twilight evening after evening trying to capture one particular light effect during the very few minutes it presented itself, and the agony of nature outracing him. Monet I would imagine. Renoir had no difficulty in taking the painting indoors and finishing them. Gee, Monet, as you probably know had his garden turned into a virtual landscape with pond, bridge and all. It's easier not to have to go too far when you're in your eighties and nineties! He was the true master of impressionism Degas said: “For an impressionist to paint from nature is not to paint the subject, but to realize sensations” I'll take you're advice though. Go to some local galleries. Maybe START something.
|
|
|
Post by Obviousman on Dec 1, 2007 6:01:06 GMT -4
I'm jealous of you people who can create art. I can 'see' things but I cannot get my hands & eyes to translate them onto a canvas.
Pah! I'm great on a pinball machine though....
|
|
|
Post by Joe Durnavich on Dec 1, 2007 11:22:01 GMT -4
I second that. Artists are an awesome (if somewhat flaky) bunch. The ability to render a 3D scene on a 2D surface seems so out-of-reach to me.
|
|
|
Post by BertL on Dec 1, 2007 11:50:37 GMT -4
I second that. Artists are an awesome (if somewhat flaky) bunch. The ability to render a 3D scene on a 2D surface seems so out-of-reach to me. Check out these, then.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Durnavich on Dec 1, 2007 12:10:07 GMT -4
No, I'm sorry. Some things I just won't believe.
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Dec 1, 2007 14:12:07 GMT -4
Monet I would imagine.
Me too. I've just read a lot of Renoir lately and don't trust my memory.
Renoir had no difficulty in taking the painting indoors and finishing them.
So I gather. There's some debate over where Moulin de la Gallette was actually painted for the most part.
Gee, Monet, as you probably know had his garden turned into a virtual landscape with pond, bridge and all.
Yes, somewhere I have a horticulture book describing Monet's garden. There are places at the Red Butte Garden arboretum near the Univ. of Utah campus that are strongly reminiscent of Impressionist painting and are likely planted much as Monet's garden must have been.
I think Degas is absolutely right, and that's what makes Impressionism so important. I'm fortunate to live within a reasonable drive of the Bellagio's art gallery, which has a remarkable and growing collection of Impressionists.
Art is not out of reach; it's usually a matter of patience and practice exercised over long periods of time. I was probably drawing and painting while you were doing other things that lead to talents for which I'll admire you when the discussion turns in that direction.
Jackson Pollack lamented for years that he "could not paint," and then later became one of the most important abstract expressionist painters. The relaxation of artistic expression from purely representational and rigidly stylized forms and techniques truly does open opportunities for people who are less confident in their abilities.
|
|